Metamatic Forums John Foxx John Foxx John Foxx The Virgin Years 1980-1985

Cheers for the extra info, Robin. There seems to be a bit of confusion here (maybe just in the terms used) - but...

Whilst the 8-channel multi-track tapes are 1", what we're interested in here is the final stereo mix. Usually in those days you would mix down onto 2" stereo tape (running at 15ips) - maybe on a Studer or Revox reel to reel machine.

Once they were happy with that mix, usually you would make a couple of "safety copies".
Or, alternatively, you might mix down simultaneously to two machines in parallel, as a safety measure (less likely in a tiny studio like Pathway).
One of these would be sent to Virgin's mastering engineer, who would tweak it so he could cut it onto vinyl (probably making a 'production master' tape in the process).

Early CD issues in the 1980s were often made from these production master tapes (which had already been tweaked for vinyl)... (as well as being maybe 2 or 3 or 4 tape generations down from the original mix)

[quote]That was when we discovered that another tape had been struck from the original one inch multi-tracks[quote]

You don't "strike" a stereo master from the multitracks (i.e. in the sense of making a kind of perfect copy of them).
On their own, the raw multitrack tapes wouldn't sound much like the finished Metamatic album -
You have to feed the multitrack tape through a mixing desk, ride the faders, mute things, apply all the effects (reverb, phasing, echo...) to create the mix that goes down on the final stereo mix tape. It is a creative realtime interactive process, and in those analogue days, would never give exactly the same results twice!

So, I'm wondering if the recently unearthed tape was the original master mixdown tape (i.e. the highest generation grandaddy of all subsequent copies, with the least hiss and distortion).
Or it could just have been a safety dub copy, in which case it might be worse quality!
Or could it be an alternative set of mixes, different to the ones sent to Virgin to release? (If so, that would be pretty obvious on listening!)

In my experience - the EMI and Island Tape Archives for Ultravox, and John's personal Tape Archive which includes all of the material retrieved from Virgin Records - I've never seen anything to suggest that a 'final mix' was ever put onto a two inch stereo tape. Please note that this includes all of the material produced by Ultravox when they worked with Sir George Martin at Air Studios in the UK and in Montserrat when they recorded their Quartet album.

Certainly, there are no two inch tapes which coincide with anything recorded at Pathway Studios - the largest format used there was one inch tape.



When we did the EMI Gold CDs for Ultravox back in the late nineties it was the 'production master' tapes which were used. The subsequent double-disc Definitive Editions went a generation closer to the 'original master' tapes.



You're right - sorry, I didn't made myself particularly clear - the accepted practice once everyone was happy with a mix, would be for that to be committed to tape - and that would be regarded as the 'Original Master' / 'Final Mix'. The problem I have here is being able to confirm (without any doubt whatsoever) whether the tape used for the 2014 remaster is the same generation as the 'Production Master' (which is the version everyone is familiar with) or if it's the tape from which the 'Production Master' was itself created as none of the tape boxes are definitively labelled either 'Original Master' or 'Final Mix'. However, the dates on the box very strongly suggested the latter - but as I'm sure you'll appreciate any number of things could've happened to the tapes and their boxes in the intervening thirty-odd years.



Based on all of the information we had available, we believed that the tape we had identified was very likely to have been the 'Original Master' - and on that basis we had it transferred. We were all very pleased with the initial results - and that was before any remastering had been done. These are definitely not different mixes.

For what it's worth, I think that the most important thing here is how good the final result is. Personally I don't think that Metamatic has ever sounded so good.

Rob

Cool! Thanks for clearing all that up
Well it sounds well worth hearing!

Liking the look of this, whilst I have pretty much everything to have them in one collection will be very nice indeed.

Does anybody know what the P&P is on this box set from Townsend?

Thanks

Gary

No doubt I'll end up buying it. I've lost count of just how many copies of Metamatic I have.

My copy of this RSD reissue of Metamatic on vinyl arrived today.
Sounds awesome and the gatefold packaging is sensational.

Well done, it is a great reissue done correctly - and only 1200 copies.

I have also ordered the Virgin years box set. Will be nice to have all the alternate versions together.

And now for the super obsessive, pedantic question! Does this 2014 remaster of Metamatic retain all of the inter-track segues? For example, the end of 030 runs into the start of Tidal Wave with no fades or gaps between the tracks, as per the original Virgin CD release of the album in 1993. The subsequent remastered releases obviously had the tracks individually edited and faded, as these links were no longer present (although on one of the CD versions, I think you can actually hear the end of the previous track at the beginning of some of the tracks, after the pause). The only reason why I ask is because I have to listen through headphones and presume John's preference was for the original album to be mastered in this way.

Cheers ...

Hi Rodney,

From listening to the 2014 remastered vinyl I would say no.

030 ends and Tidal Wave starts no merging.

Brian

As far as I'm aware, no changes (timing-wise) were made to the spaces between the tracks on the 2014 remastered version of Metamatic.

I'm listening to the album now (at volume) and I can confirm that there's no fade to silence after 030 and before Tidal Wave. The timings are exactly the same as they were when I listened the version taken directly from the tape prior to there being any remastering.

It's the original tape which has informed our decisions - and not what's been done previously on other CD editions.

Rob

Thanks very much for your replies, Brian and Rob.

Although, I do stand slightly corrected after having just listened to the three CD releases of Metamatic at 'bleeding ears' volume through headphones.

The original Virgin CDV2146 CD does have the very start of the Underpass synth' drone audible at the very end of He's A Liquid, as does the Edsel EDSD 2013 2CD release from 2007. In fact, the only breaks present are between Plaza and He's A Liquid, and He's A Liquid and Underpass. All of the other tracks have the original segues present between tracks (i.e. the synth' at the very end of 030 can be heard fading beneath the very start of Tidal Wave. So, perhaps the 2007 remaster uses the same source as the original 1993 CD?

Unfortunately, the Edsel EDCD 702 CD release of 2001 breaks up all of the tracks and the sound quality isn't the best. You can hear the very end of 030 at the start of Tidal Wave after the pause between the two tracks.

Is it not normal for remastering engineers to use headphones?

So, yes, hopefully the 2014 remaster will indeed be the superior CD version, since Dallas Simpson seems to have done a pretty good job of the last remaster (as appreciated by my strictly amateur hearing, of course).

Thanks again ...