Pre-order link is now up:-

http://johnfoxx.tmstor.es/cart/product.php?id=18269






This 5CD Box Set covers the 4 albums John Foxx released between 1980 - 1985 - Metamatic, The Garden, The Golden Section & In Mysterious Ways - plus B-sides and out-takes from the sessions which have been added as bonus tracks after each original album, and on a fifth CD, Fusion/Fission. The Virgin Years includes the new Metamatic master taken from newly discovered analogue tapes dating back to 1979 (featured on this year's ltd white vinyl edition), along with re-masters of the B-sides - 'This City', 'Film One' etc. The black box also houses five postcards with the artwork for the singles 'Underpass', 'No-One Driving', 'Europe After The Rain', 'Endlessly' and 'Stars On Fire'.


DISC ONE : METAMATIC
01. PLAZA
02. HE'S A LIQUID
03. UNDERPASS
04. METAL BEAT
05. NO-ONE DRIVING
06. A NEW KIND OF MAN
07. BLURRED GIRL
08. 030
09. TIDAL WAVE
10. TOUCH AND GO. EXTRA TRACKS
11. FILM ONE
12. THIS CITY
13. BURNING CAR
14. GLIMMER
15. MR NO
16. YOUNG LOVE
17. 20TH CENTURY
18. MY FACE
19. A NEW KIND OF MAN (alternative version)
20. HE'S A LIQUID (alternative version)

DISC TWO : THE GARDEN
01. EUROPE AFTER THE RAIN
02. SYSTEMS OF ROMANCE
03. WHEN I WAS A MAN AND YOU WERE A WOMAN
04. DANCING LIKE A GUN
05. PATER NOSTER
06. NIGHT SUIT
07. YOU WERE THERE
08. FUSION / FISSION
09. WALK AWAY
10. THE GARDEN.
EXTRA TRACKS:
11. SWIMMER II
12. THIS JUNGLE
13. MILES AWAY
14. A LONG TIME
15. SWIMMER I
16. SWIMMER III
17. SWIMMER IV

DISC THREE : THE GOLDEN SECTION
01. MY WILD LOVE
02. SOMEONE
03. YOUR DRESS
04. RUNNING ACROSS THIN ICE WITH TIGERS
05. SITTING AT THE EDGE OF THE WORLD
06. ENDLESSLY
07. GHOSTS ON WATER
08. LIKE A MIRACLE
09. THE HIDDEN MAN
10. TWILIGHT'S LAST GLEAMING.
EXTRA TRACKS
11. ANNEXE
12. A KIND OF WAVE
13. A WOMAN ON A STAIRWAY
14. THE LIFTING SKY
15. SHINE ON ME
16. WINGS AND A WIND
17. DANCE WITH ME

DISC FOUR : IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS
01. STARS ON FIRE
02. LOSE ALL SENSE OF TIME
03. SPIN AWAY
04. ENTER THE ANGEL II
05. ENTER THE ANGEL
06. IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS
07. WHAT KIND OF GIRL
08. SHINE ON
09. STEPPING SOFTLY
10. MORNING GLORY.
EXTRA TRACKS
11. LUMEN DE LUMINE
12. TO BE WITH YOU (alternative version)
13. AND THE SKY
14. THIS SIDE OF PARADISE
15. HIDING IN PLAIN SIGHT
16. CITY OF LIGHT

DISC FIVE : FUSION / FISSION
01. CINEMASCOPE
02. TO BE WITH YOU
03. LIKE A MIRACLE (alternative version)
04. FOG
05. FUSION / FISSION (early version)
06. DANCE WITH ME (early version)
07. A WOMAN ON A STAIRWAY (early version)
08. ENDLESSLY (single version)
09. MY WILD LOVE (early version)
10. A LONG TIME (alternative version)
11. SITTING AT THE EDGE OF THE WORLD (alternative version)
12. TWILIGHT'S LAST GLEAMING (early version)
13. YOUNG MAN
14. THE HIDDEN MAN (alternative version)
15. ENTER THE ANGEL (alternative version)
16. MAGIC 17. SHINE ON (alternative version)

Brian

Thanks for the heads up Brian. Although there's nothing on there I don't already own,as a completist I'll still be buying it. You can't argue with the price. A nice looking package too.

I think it's worth it for The Metamatic remaster which has incredible clarity compared to the previous masters.

I have it on the Record Store Day White vinyl.

Will be nice to have a CD quality copy also.

Does look a nice package.

Brian

Looks Cinemascope-ish to me - hope it's of a similar design.

Rob - is it a limited edition like Cinemascope was?

The Virgin Years box set is broadly the same design-wise as Cinemascope, but it hasn't been created to be a limited edition. We've pressed up 1000 copies, but we've the option to create more if there's sufficient demand.

Rob

You know, I was going to fulminate against the injustice of having to buy a whole box set just to get the new master of Metamatic. Then I clicked on the preorder and discovered that it's only £15 for the box set and my objections just dissipated.

I'm not sure that I want another CD containing 'Magic' though.

I'm curious about the Metamatic remaster but considering I have these albums three or four times already, I'm having a hard time talking myself into it.

So is there somewhere I can read more about this "rediscovered master tape"?

Where was it found?
Is this the original 2" master reels that John & Gareth mixed down onto? (i.e. a higher tape generation than all previous CDs have been mastered from?)

That's it pre-ordered :-)

Like most people, I've already got all the tracks but it's a nice looking package.

The postcards are a nice touch but I'm wondering why not include one for every single from those years? Given how striking each cover was, I'd happily pay a bit extra to have a complete set.

Metamatic was recorded at Pathway Studios which John described as "an eight-track cupboard in Islington" so the multi-track tapes were only one inch, and not two inch in size. Somewhere I've got scans of the boxes which contain the Metamatic multi-track tapes - which is why I'm certain that they are one inch. Two inch tapes would be used when John recorded at studios which had twenty-four track desks.

Anyhow, a number of years ago (I can't remember the specific date - I have it written down somewhere, but I can't put my hand on it at the moment) I accompanied John to the offices of Virgin Records to retrieve all of the 'production master' tapes for the material he released during his time with them. It was that 'production master' of Metamatic which has been used on all of the previous versions.

These 'production master' tapes were then reunited with a 'large number' of other tapes which John had amassed over the intervening years - which included all of the corresponding multi-track tapes, etc. I scanned the front covers of each of these tape boxes (and the accompanying timing sheets) as part of a week-long project to catalogue John's tapes. That was when we discovered that another tape had been struck from the original one inch multi-tracks, and it's that tape which has been used in this instance.



The problem was knowing where to draw the line - because if all of the front covers had been made into postcards then that would've increased the overall price of the project.

Rob

Cheers for the extra info, Robin. There seems to be a bit of confusion here (maybe just in the terms used) - but...

Whilst the 8-channel multi-track tapes are 1", what we're interested in here is the final stereo mix. Usually in those days you would mix down onto 2" stereo tape (running at 15ips) - maybe on a Studer or Revox reel to reel machine.

Once they were happy with that mix, usually you would make a couple of "safety copies".
Or, alternatively, you might mix down simultaneously to two machines in parallel, as a safety measure (less likely in a tiny studio like Pathway).
One of these would be sent to Virgin's mastering engineer, who would tweak it so he could cut it onto vinyl (probably making a 'production master' tape in the process).

Early CD issues in the 1980s were often made from these production master tapes (which had already been tweaked for vinyl)... (as well as being maybe 2 or 3 or 4 tape generations down from the original mix)

[quote]That was when we discovered that another tape had been struck from the original one inch multi-tracks[quote]

You don't "strike" a stereo master from the multitracks (i.e. in the sense of making a kind of perfect copy of them).
On their own, the raw multitrack tapes wouldn't sound much like the finished Metamatic album -
You have to feed the multitrack tape through a mixing desk, ride the faders, mute things, apply all the effects (reverb, phasing, echo...) to create the mix that goes down on the final stereo mix tape. It is a creative realtime interactive process, and in those analogue days, would never give exactly the same results twice!

So, I'm wondering if the recently unearthed tape was the original master mixdown tape (i.e. the highest generation grandaddy of all subsequent copies, with the least hiss and distortion).
Or it could just have been a safety dub copy, in which case it might be worse quality!
Or could it be an alternative set of mixes, different to the ones sent to Virgin to release? (If so, that would be pretty obvious on listening!)

In my experience - the EMI and Island Tape Archives for Ultravox, and John's personal Tape Archive which includes all of the material retrieved from Virgin Records - I've never seen anything to suggest that a 'final mix' was ever put onto a two inch stereo tape. Please note that this includes all of the material produced by Ultravox when they worked with Sir George Martin at Air Studios in the UK and in Montserrat when they recorded their Quartet album.

Certainly, there are no two inch tapes which coincide with anything recorded at Pathway Studios - the largest format used there was one inch tape.



When we did the EMI Gold CDs for Ultravox back in the late nineties it was the 'production master' tapes which were used. The subsequent double-disc Definitive Editions went a generation closer to the 'original master' tapes.



You're right - sorry, I didn't made myself particularly clear - the accepted practice once everyone was happy with a mix, would be for that to be committed to tape - and that would be regarded as the 'Original Master' / 'Final Mix'. The problem I have here is being able to confirm (without any doubt whatsoever) whether the tape used for the 2014 remaster is the same generation as the 'Production Master' (which is the version everyone is familiar with) or if it's the tape from which the 'Production Master' was itself created as none of the tape boxes are definitively labelled either 'Original Master' or 'Final Mix'. However, the dates on the box very strongly suggested the latter - but as I'm sure you'll appreciate any number of things could've happened to the tapes and their boxes in the intervening thirty-odd years.



Based on all of the information we had available, we believed that the tape we had identified was very likely to have been the 'Original Master' - and on that basis we had it transferred. We were all very pleased with the initial results - and that was before any remastering had been done. These are definitely not different mixes.

For what it's worth, I think that the most important thing here is how good the final result is. Personally I don't think that Metamatic has ever sounded so good.

Rob

Cool! Thanks for clearing all that up
Well it sounds well worth hearing!

Liking the look of this, whilst I have pretty much everything to have them in one collection will be very nice indeed.

Does anybody know what the P&P is on this box set from Townsend?

Thanks

Gary

No doubt I'll end up buying it. I've lost count of just how many copies of Metamatic I have.

My copy of this RSD reissue of Metamatic on vinyl arrived today.
Sounds awesome and the gatefold packaging is sensational.

Well done, it is a great reissue done correctly - and only 1200 copies.

I have also ordered the Virgin years box set. Will be nice to have all the alternate versions together.

And now for the super obsessive, pedantic question! Does this 2014 remaster of Metamatic retain all of the inter-track segues? For example, the end of 030 runs into the start of Tidal Wave with no fades or gaps between the tracks, as per the original Virgin CD release of the album in 1993. The subsequent remastered releases obviously had the tracks individually edited and faded, as these links were no longer present (although on one of the CD versions, I think you can actually hear the end of the previous track at the beginning of some of the tracks, after the pause). The only reason why I ask is because I have to listen through headphones and presume John's preference was for the original album to be mastered in this way.

Cheers ...

Hi Rodney,

From listening to the 2014 remastered vinyl I would say no.

030 ends and Tidal Wave starts no merging.

Brian

As far as I'm aware, no changes (timing-wise) were made to the spaces between the tracks on the 2014 remastered version of Metamatic.

I'm listening to the album now (at volume) and I can confirm that there's no fade to silence after 030 and before Tidal Wave. The timings are exactly the same as they were when I listened the version taken directly from the tape prior to there being any remastering.

It's the original tape which has informed our decisions - and not what's been done previously on other CD editions.

Rob

Thanks very much for your replies, Brian and Rob.

Although, I do stand slightly corrected after having just listened to the three CD releases of Metamatic at 'bleeding ears' volume through headphones.

The original Virgin CDV2146 CD does have the very start of the Underpass synth' drone audible at the very end of He's A Liquid, as does the Edsel EDSD 2013 2CD release from 2007. In fact, the only breaks present are between Plaza and He's A Liquid, and He's A Liquid and Underpass. All of the other tracks have the original segues present between tracks (i.e. the synth' at the very end of 030 can be heard fading beneath the very start of Tidal Wave. So, perhaps the 2007 remaster uses the same source as the original 1993 CD?

Unfortunately, the Edsel EDCD 702 CD release of 2001 breaks up all of the tracks and the sound quality isn't the best. You can hear the very end of 030 at the start of Tidal Wave after the pause between the two tracks.

Is it not normal for remastering engineers to use headphones?

So, yes, hopefully the 2014 remaster will indeed be the superior CD version, since Dallas Simpson seems to have done a pretty good job of the last remaster (as appreciated by my strictly amateur hearing, of course).

Thanks again ...

I guess it depends on what the definition of 'normal' is - you're implying that headphones would always be used. A remastering engineer would surely utilise whatever equipment was available to help them achieve the very best results. What would be 'normal' for one person wouldn't be for another - the choices made would inevitably be driven by a multitude of factors.

Rob

No, not at all, Rob. I just assumed, whether right or wrong, that in order to hear such details in the tracks, concentrated listening through headphones would provide that, as opposed to 'open air' sound through speakers. I don't know anyone involved in the industry, so I don't really know what processes are involved (I enjoyed the old EV article covering the remastering of Spies ), if there is a standard, as far as attention to these sorts of details are concerned. Although, I expect there has to be some sort of compromise made between trying to retain the original tracks in their entirety and having to edit (e.g. fade-outs) to help eliminate the likes of tape hiss, as well as the obvious filtering and equalising tools that are also used.

Anyway, I'm certainly looking forward to the box-set, once it's released.

Thanks very much for your help, as always.

Just got a dispatch email for "The Virgin Years". Wasn't expecting it for another month!

Was looking at the track listings again and noticed that the listing for "In Mysterious Ways" is different again. This is the fourth different version we've had now! At the risk of being obsessed, here they all are:

1985
Stars On Fire
Lose All Sense Of Time
Shine On
Enter The Angel
In Mysterious Ways
What Kind Of Girl
This Side Of Paradise
Stepping Softly
Enter The Angel II
Morning Glory

2001
Stars On Fire
Lose All Sense Of Time
What Kind Of Girl
Shine On
Enter The Angel
In Mysterious Ways
This Side of Paradise
Stepping Softly
Morning Glory
Enter The Angel II


2008
Stars On Fire
Lose All Sense Of Time
Spin Away
Shine On
Enter The Angel
In Mysterious Ways
What Kind Of Girl
Stepping Softly
Enter The Angel II
Morning Glory

2014
Stars On Fire
Lose All Sense Of Time
Spin Away
Enter The Angel II
Enter The Angel
In Mysterious Ways
What Kind Of Girl
Shine On
Stepping Softly
Morning Glory

Only "Stars On Fire" and "Lose All Sense Of Time" have been included and are in the same place on all four albums.

Yeah, got the same email. It's an excellent package. Recommended to all new to Foxx music.

Chris

Mine has arrived this morning.

Very pleased with it.



Brian

Wow!

What a sight. I grew up with these albums.

A musical documentary.

Enjoy!

Chris

The track listing (above) aren't 'quite right' as the track Spin Away wasn't 'released' until 2008.
Therefore, the track-listings for the 2001 and 2008 versions of In Mysterious Ways are as follows:-

2001...
01. Stars On Fire
02. Lose All Sense Of Time
03. What Kind Of Girl
04. Shine On
05. Enter The Angel
06. In Mysterious Ways
07. This Side Of Paradise
08. Stepping Softly
09. Morning Glory
10. Enter The Angel II

2008...
01. Stars On Fire
02. Lose All Sense Of Time
03. Spin Away
04. Shine On
05. Enter The Angel
06. In Mysterious Ways
07. What Kind Of Girl
08. Stepping Softly
09. Enter The Angel II
10. Morning Glory

Rob

Sorry Rob - you are of course correct. I've amended my list above.

I got my set today - really nice item. Thanks to everyone involved in making it happen.

my copy came yesterday listening to Metamatic before going to the gym!

Was going to wait till end of month before ordering, but as this has come out early, my order has gone in and I await its arrival next week, fingers crossed!

Unbelievably someone is selling these sets for £39.99 on eBay already...

Well well well... I got my boxset today,
and I am intrigued enough (or anal enough) about this new master of Metamatic that I ripped WAVs off the new 2014 CD and the previous 2007 CD (using "Exact Audio Copy"), plonked them in my DAW and did an A/B listening comparison, to see what all the fuss is about.

First conclusion: these two masters are pretty definitely of the same stereo mix. I couldn't find a single instance of any different sounds or parts lurking in the new version.
They also definately come from different plays of analogue tapes, though, as inevitable slight different replay speeds means that the waveforms drift apart even after a few bars (the CR78 drum patterns lend themselves very nicely to time-aligning the waveforms!)

So - if these two tapes were of the same stereo mix, next question is: which one is the higher generation? And which one a copy?

Well, it is difficult to tell, because clearly Dallas Simponson has done different things to them at the mastering stage, obfuscating the differences in the originals - I can't tell for sure which differences are due to the tapes, and which are due to Dallas's mastering.
- How can I tell that *any* are due to Dallas Simpson? Well that's easy: because he's clearly taken a different approach to "loudness" between the two. On the 2007 edition, he's allowed some tracks to be louder than others (probably preserving their relative loudness on the original mix) - some tracks peak as much as 3dB off full scale, compared to the loudest (which peak at full scale).
However, on the new 2014 edition, everythings been given a bit of limiting so that the ALL the tracks peak at full scale, with no spare headroom.
This is definately something that's been done after digitisation of the tapes.

There is also more hiss and hum, in general, on the new 2014 edition than on the 2007 edition. Now, is this because there is *inherently* more hiss and hum on the tape used for the 2014 edition? Or is it because Dallas applied more noise and hum reduction plugins on the 2007 version? Hard to say -
but I hear next to no noise reduction artefacts at all on the 2007 version, so that suggests to me that the 2007 tape (from the Virgin vaults) was the highest generation master....

Sonically, the 2007 edition has more high end.
The new 2014 edition rolls off some high stuff (we're talking over 12kHz-ish, at a guess) but has noticeably warmer and fuller mids.

Again, it is very hard to guess whether these tonal differences are due to Dallas Simpson's mastering (EQ, multiband compression...) or stem entirely from the source tapes sounding different.
However, less highs, more mids (and warmer mids - i.e. with some subtle distortion) and more hiss is what you'd expect from a further tape generation (or, indeed, from application of a tape emulation plugin during mastering!)

... so, um - overall, I'm inclined to guess that the new 2014 edition, from the mystery 1" tape found in John's archive, is from a LOWER tape generation than the production master than Virgin had! And thus, strictly speaking, is "worse" audio quality than the 2007 CD.

But, I'd qualify that by saying that the 2014 edition has a warmer, slightly more compressed and ballsy sound - possibly from mastering, possibly from being from a lower tape generation, or both... many listeners may find it a little more appealing and less "clinical" than the 2007 CD.


Were the B-sides all from this same tape too?
I wondered if they'd shed more light on things...
To my ears, "My Face" and "Film One" were the only two tracks that I was more inclinded to guess that the 2014 version was the higher generation source - although this could just be cos Dallas Simpson gave them more welly.

"Young Love" still appeared to have a "drop out" on one side of the stereo in the middle... at the same place on both versions! This suggests it's not a "drop out" at all, but a hiccup in the mic, something getting muted that shouldn't be (or erased on the multitrack)


Auch, ultimately - after an hour or so of poring over them on expensive Sennheiser headphones I really am just guessing - without Dallas Simpson popping by to tell us his side of things, I am none the wiser. Probably the new version kicks slightly more ass as the expense of some high-end fidelity. To me the change is more one of subjective taste, rather than a definite "this one is clearly better audio quality".

The 2014 remaster is DEFINITELY NOT from a lower tape generation than the production master that Virgin had.

You said previously that it was usual practice to mix down onto a two-inch stereo tape. I replied by saying that this was not the case with Metamatic as the multi-track tapes were themselves only one-inch in size - and so there was no benefit in mixing down to a format that was larger than the originating multi-tracks. At no point did I confirm what size tapes were used for the stereo mix created from the multi-tracks - but you've assumed (incorrectly) that it was down onto one-inch tape.

Please refer to my previous posts - One and Two - specifically the part where I said : The problem I have here is being able to confirm (without any doubt whatsoever) whether the tape used for the 2014 remaster is the same generation as the 'Production Master' (which is the version everyone is familiar with) or if it's the tape from which the 'Production Master' was itself created as none of the tape boxes are definitively labelled either 'Original Master' or 'Final Mix'. However, the dates on the box very strongly suggested the latter - but as I'm sure you'll appreciate any number of things could've happened to the tapes and their boxes in the intervening thirty-odd years.

Rob

Robin, I wouldn't get too hung up on the tape format (1" versus 2") ... the width of the tape isn't really the biggest factor in the audio quality it could provide (the recording speed is more important, as that most directly affects the frequency response ... 15 inches per second was a common speed for a mixing down to... 7½ips was a bit scuzzier.... tape brand, the type of noise reduction used - if any - and the quality of the tape machine used all are factors too.
Also, just because you'd multitracked on 8-track 1" doesn't mean it wouldn't be advantageous to mix down to stereo on, say, 2" 15ips ... it's not like digital where you can't increase the resolution or bandwidth beyond what's there: with analogue systems, EVERY copy and generation degrades the signal! So using high quality formats (e.g. 2" 15ips) for each generation can mean less degradation... but as I say, let's not get hung up on that! ...
.... although, having said that, can you confirm the size/speed/formulation/noise reduction used on the two tapes in question?)

All I can say is, my ears tell me that the 2014 edition sounds has less high end, and sounds "warmer" in the mids (e.g. has more mild distortion there) that the 2007 edition.
This is consistent with it being from a LOWER (later) tape generation... but it's not conclusive proof of that, as many people subjective PREFER that type of sound, and many mastering engineers commonly process mixes to deliberately make them sound a bit like that! So Dallas Simpson may have done just that...
(Any chance of you interviewing him? )

In any case, none of this is a criticism of anyone - the packaging of the boxset is lovely and I've certainly no complaint about the sound of the new Metamatic master on aesthetic grounds!
It just doesn't sounds like a higher tape generation source to me.

...ANOTHER thing which could affect the sound, of course, is the soundcard (A>D convertors) use to digitize the tapes. The 2007 edition sounds a TINY bit more "brittle", which could be due to less deluxe A>D convertors being used to capture it, compared to the 2014 one (as convertors have gotten better over the years).

Also, we must remember that magnetic tapes slowly loose their signal, starting with the high end ... so a tape digitized 7 years later than another one will probably have a bit less high end! (particularly if they have to "bake" it...)

Has everyone that has ordered this CD collection got there’s, I pre ordered it but still waiting on mines

Another wee thing about this boxset -
it has all the tracks from the 2-CD Edsel editions of John's four Virgin albums (from 2007), yes?

However there are still some stragglers released elsewhere this it doesn't have:

• Half a dozen 7" single edits from the 2001 Music Club CD "Modern Art - The Best of John Foxx"
• There's a few tracks on the 2008 Music Club double CD "Glimmer - The Best of John Foxx" (including an extended "Plaza"
• The 2010 Edsel 'Metatronic' compilation 2CD+DVD set has some extra Metamatic era out-takes and extended mixes
• The 2013 Edsel 'Metadelic' compilation 2CD+DVD set has quite a few 12" versions and Radio Sessions?

Is that pretty much all?
I was getting quite confused when tidying my iTunes library today - trying to figure out which CD I ripped which track from!

I would have expected your ears to be up to a differentiation there

I expect the 'missing tracks' were left out simply because of running time.
This 5x CD set is pretty crammed full in that respect

less of that, cheekychops!

What I mean is: in my iTunes library, I don't just rip CDs into it and keep the "album title" as the name of the CD they came from -
I'm afraid I am mad enough to have sat poring over discographies and sleevenotes and changing the album names and artwork to match the appropriate original release ... so I have things organised by such obscure labels as "Burning Car [Japanese mini-album]" and "No-one Driving [double single]" etc etc...
(I just find I enjoy it more that way - almost all the bands I like who released singles in the late 70s/1980s had a bazillion extra B-side tracks that weren't on albums, which have all subsequently come out as extra tracks on CDs... and I just find it nice to put them back in their original context on my iPod)
...in John Foxx's case, I was beginning to lose track of what CDs I'd gotten those extra tracks from, as there's half a dozen other CDs that have other ones, besides this boxset.
I'M NOT COMPLAINING (I bought all the damn things! And it's very nice to have all these extra tracks, thanks to the exhaustive archivist work Robin and others have done to curate all this stuff! There are other bands who have been so thorough, but there's plenty of others who haven't and lots of little tracks still languish, never yet put out on CD)

Personally I love your posts Feline. You're obviously a big fan of much of John's work but love to know about the technicalities. Keep those posts coming.

The Virgin Years box set was never intended to be an exhaustive collection of absolutely everything - instead it was a way of pulling together the material which had previously been contained within the double disc editions of Metamatic, The Garden, The Golden Section and In Mysterious Ways - and that's exactly what it's done save for a few tracks which couldn't be included mainly due to timing issues.

Rob

Oh, are there a couple of tracks from the double CD editions that *aren't* on this boxset? /more confused than ever/

what are these that are missing then?

As far as I can tell :

Miles Away (alternative version)
Running Across Thin Ice With Tigers (extended version)
Endlessly (extended mix)

The following are missing:

Miles Away(alternative version)from The Garden deluxe 2 cd edition.

Running Across Thin Ice With Tigers(extended mix)and Endlessly(extended mix) from The Golden Section 2 cd edition.

Martin beat me to it.

Incidentally I always wondered why Running Across Thin Ice With Tigers(extended mix)was called so.It's not really any longer than the album version. Just a completely different mix. Shouldn't it have been called alternative mix instead?

Quite right, Rob! Yes indeed, Dallas has clearly left the two sides of the album exactly as they are, as this remaster is now the most accurate release to date. It's only taken six days to make it all the way to the arse end of the world, so I'm very pleased to now have this very nice collection in my possession. I also like the continuity in the artwork between the 2007-2008 2CD releases and this special box set, while still making the box set itself something different again (and, yes, I did notice the update to the back cover images of Metamatic).

I'm not bothered about the few tracks that haven't been included from the four 2CD sets, as we're very fortunate to have so much of John's archived material made available at all. The Fusion/Fission CD is a nice addition to the set and a good way to separate most of the early/alternative versions.

As far as the quality of the Metamatic CD is concerned ... I'm far from an expert and just go by what my ears hear, but this does sound good to me, although obviously varying treatments can be used to gain varying results, so it's quite true that it can be a matter of individual preference as to which sound quality is preferred. I did notice that 20th Century has a small 'ring' sound right at the very beginning, which isn't present in the 2007 release, so presumably this indicates a different source tape? Anyway, it's not really an issue.

So, big thanks to all involved in this release.

I also got B-Movie (Ballardian Video Neuronica), so I've got plenty of Foxx to listen to for a good while!

Cheers ...

Yeah I can hear the noise you mean, it's like a faint high little note trailing behind the initial drum machine beats.
Certainly doesn't spoil anything, but it's intriguing as to why it is not audible on tape used for the 2007 master, but is there on the tape for the 2014 master...

The two tapes are both from the *same* mixdown off the 1" 8-track multitrack, so how can there be different things on them?

My best guess would that it is due to "print through" or "pre-echo". This is a phenomenon you can get with analogue tapes: when the tape is wound for years on a spool, a loud signal on an adjacent bit of the tape can sometimes actually manages to magnetise itself onto the a bit of silence in the tape laying underneath/on top of itself. So maybe a really loud bit of high strings from the end of 'Burning Car' is printing through onto the start of 20th Century on the 2014 tape?

Alternatively, maybe that noise *is* on the 2007 tape too, but that time Dallas Simpson applied a really narrow notch filter to get rid of it. It's hard to do that without leaving tiny artefacts though, which I don't hear, so I'd guess that's less likely.

I am only guessing though!

Just spotted IMW revised track-listing.

You're assuming that Burning Car is followed by 20th Century on the Original Master tape - and that the gap between these two tracks is only a few seconds long. It's far more likely that the gap between them would be a lot longer - as they were never originally intended to be played consecutively - being consigned instead to different sides of the same piece of vinyl. While this "print through" phenomenon is something that can affect (some) analogue tapes - it's far more prevalent on domestic tapes than studio tapes which are significantly thicker.

Rob

Well sure - it needn't be print through from Burning Car - indeed it could be print through from 20th Century itself...

Here's another guess: it could be that, for the 2014 master, Dallas Simpson hooked up some analogue processor(s) to his console, one of which added that tiny bit of background noise by accident (i.e. it's not actually on the tape used for the 2014 edition itself).
I've no idea whether Dallas does his mastering "in the box" (i.e. all digital on the computer) or uses analogue outboard gear.

Whilst I appreciate and understand that in the download age musicians have to make a living any way they can, I’m afraid this whole release just comes across as a cynical rip off to me. As feline1 has suggested, the new master isn’t necessarily better than any of the previous Metamatic remasters, it’s just different, and the fact you have to run it through analytical software just to spot the difference does make me question if it really merits commercial release at all.

I could kind of understand the point in remastering if Metamatic had been a recording with a wide dynamic range with lots of individually miked acoustic instruments and multi layered vocals, but it isn’t. It’s an 8 track analogue recording featuring just analogue synths, processed vocals and a drum machine, so any kind of remastering job is unlikely to make much difference apart from making it subjectively louder ot getting rid of some of the hum and hiss, which many people find to be part of the charm of the album.

And whilst I know it’s a common technique, bundling the new CD in a boxset with 3 albums that we all already own and have already bought several times over is a bit of an insult to the loyal fans who’ve supported John over the years. If there was a time to release “The Virgin Years” boxset, it should have been in 2009 when the deluxe edition 2CD albums were released, thus giving the fans the choice of just buying individual albums or getting the full set in a handy package.

This isn’t a dig at Rob, who I’m sure has put a lot of effort into the boxset, just an attempt to point out that asking loyal fans to fork out £15 for a new remaster of an old album doesn’t seem like much of a bargain. It would have been much fairer if the wav files of the individual tracks could have been put up to download from the online store at say 79p each or £5 for the whole album.

Yes - every version released so far of this album has a variation on the track-listing

In my relative ignorance of all things technical-wise, I'd like to ask what differences the format of the re-mastered METAMATIC would make to the perception of sound 'quality'?

METAMATIC was re-mastered this time round primarily for the limited edition vinyl release on Record Store Day so that it could sound how it was originally meant to etc...

This version has subsequently been issued on CD for The Virgin Years box set - so transferred / recorded onto a different format (i.e., digital rather than analogue).

If it is then transferred / played through or otherwise converted to a hi-quality digital media player, would it sound 'different' in any way to the same thing on vinyl??

Thanks in advance

To be fair, I still used my EARS to spot the difference (and a good pair of Sennheisers) ... all the software was doing was letting me line two WAVs up beside each other and flip between them.

I certainly have some sympathy for where you're coming from with all this 'another year, another repackage' type releases.
My preference would be for John to get his entire catalogue well organised on all the online stores via a digital aggregator, so that all the bazillion extra tracks are in their proper context. E.g. he could release all his various singles as 'EPs' on iTunes et al, so for example you can buy "No-one Driving" and it has the four correct tracks and the right cover art (7" edit of No-one Driving, This City, Glimmer, Mr No), or an "Endlessly" EP that has the 6 or 7 odd tracks and mixes associated with those singles. Then the catalogue would make more sense and you'd get more of the lovely artwork.

At the moment, you have to wade through about 9 different CD releases, pieceing together all the bonus tracks yourself and trying to work out "is this the same version of He's A Liquid that's on the 3rd re-issue of Metamatic? Or is this one only on Glimmer? Or Metatronic? Or...?" etc etc

Another thing I would love would be for John to release stems of the multi-tracks of Metamatic so we could play with it ourselves! I'd LOVE to buy that!

At the risk of making purists howl, assuming the same WAVs were used to create the vinyl and the CD, the CD will sound loads better.
The signal on the vinyl will get scratched off slightly more every time you play it,
and you get a variety of distortions that don't exist on CD (e.g. more distortion closer to the inside of the vinyl cos the linear speed is slower... tracking errors across the vinyl as the needle doesn't keep the same angle relative to the groove... slightly wow and warble as the turntable speed wobbles... pops and noise from dust...)

To physically fit the signal onto the vinyl, some bass will have had to be rolled off (otherwise the needle would jump out of the groove). Whether this was already rolled off in the WAV file and so is also missing on the CD version is question for Dallas Simpson.

The CD version will of course have bitswizzling errors and jitter, as all CDs do. I tend to rip em off with error correction and then leave em on the shelf

"Spin Away" is certainly a lovely track, it would be interesting to hear from John as to why he left it off the album in 1985. I still think it's a bit of a cheek to try and rewrite history like this though On my iTunes, Spin Away is not on the In Mysterious Ways album! It is relegated to the bonus tracks

With respect to IMW. I imagine John looks back at that album and thinks it's not the album it could have been.Personally I think it's a real hotchpotch of styles and suffers for it. Not to say that there aren't some excellent track on there. However I think the original tracklisting should have been left as it was.If people want to create their own 'version' of the album then they have the option.

Well I’m still waiting on my copy, have contacted Townsend and seen to be getting the run around so have asked for my money back, not happy at all!

Unfortunately I have had a similar experience...


Although I have just been told today that my copy of EUROPEAN SPLENDOUR has just been despatched

I guess we just have to be patient, and to be fair to them, they did not charge me for the CD until yesterday when copies 'became available'

Shouldn't the box set be on the "news" page and "recent releases"? Might boost sales a bit, especially if people aren't on the mailing list or frequent the forums.

Yeah, sorry about that…

I've been a bit busy with a number of other projects, and so it got overlooked. All sorted now…

Rob

No problem Rob - we know you're a busy chap

Personally, I found this 5 CD box to be awesome.

I am a vinyl guy, so having copies of the Virgin albums was no big deal, but all the alternate takes, unreleased songs, 12 inch versions is fantastic. Great for the car.

The best part was this release was cheap as chips 15 quid, I can't see how anyone can complain about this release.

thanks to all involved with this release

I just got this recently and I was just listening to disc 3. What I want to know is… did Lennon+McCartney get writing credit for "Shine On Me?" I was anticipating an earlier version of "Shine On" but my brain was fighting these new lyrics every step of the way and I'm not even a Beatles fan! It just kept inserting the lyrics to "Rain" the whole time.

Of course the track 'Annexe' sounds so much like a Beatles track too.