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I was thinking of investing in the Nation 12 / Electrofear CD .. although from what I have read on the forum it's not that good.(?)
Should I get it just because JF is on it, or should I ignore it because it's not a JF album?
:rolleyes:

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From the standard set by John Foxx albums, this is not too good. The important point is that this is Not a Foxx album and should be judged separately. So its a reasonably good album by Nation 12. The fact that John's featured is a bonus. I would say buy it, but enjoy it for what it is. smile

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Quote:
Originally posted by newvox:
.... I would say buy it, but enjoy it for what it is. smile
And what is it then? confused

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Quote:
Originally posted by newvox:
its a reasonably good album by Nation 12.
......with dare i say some 'urban style dance tracks'. And if you judge it for what THAT is, then its a very good album of that kind.

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Quote:
some 'urban style dance tracks'.
...mmmmm..I'm none the wiser but Ok - I'll go for it this weekend.

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and it does have some more "traditional" tracks as well. a mixed bag but worth having.

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Don't view it as an "album".

View it as a collection of demo tracks and ideas from an unfinished musical project – which is what it is.

It sounds very typical of its time – ealy 90s dance/pop combined with typically Foxxian ideas and lyrics.

It won't blow you away but I think you'll be enlightened.

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Ok thanks alex - as a matter of fact I didn't get round to listening to it (still stuck on Bowie / Low etc. per other thread).
Alos tried to give In Mysterious Ways another listen but I still can't......

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My copy of In Mysterious Ways is consigned to a corner where it sits gathering dust frown

One interesting thing with the Nation 12 CD is that it features early versions of tracks that all ended up on later albums:

Your Kisses Burn - New version on From Trash
Cities Of Light 1 - Cities of Light 2 on TPOE
Invisible Women - different version on TPOE
Concrete / Bulletproof / Invisible - different version on Shifting City
Leaving - became Through My Sleeping on Shifting City.

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yes, I noticed Your Kisses Burn, but not the others. Will def look into it soon.

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Here's the View From The Halloway:

Nation 12
Unutterable rubbish. A case of 'oooh look how many presets I've got on my drum machine.'

She Was
If you screw your eyes really tight this could almost be an out-take from Metamatic, if it weren't for the naff vocoder and naffer lyric.

Shadow Dancing
Hints of 'The Garden' album here. One of the more interesting tracks on the album due to its varying textures. Gets silly towards the end.

Florian
This starts off sounding like a cross between Bill Nelson and Aneka. If I then say that it rather tails off then you'll understand just how bad it is.

Electrofear
Zzzzzz.

Listen To The Drummer
Oddly enough, if this had been released as a single it might have been a hit due to the use of funky black samples and orchestra hits.

Leaving
I rather like this one, almost as much as 'Through My Sleeping.' The percussion is a little lighter than on other tracks and includes a tabla which gives it a faintly Bhangra-esque feel.

Into The Wonderful
I actually owned a copy of 'Gods' on the Atari ST which used a tracker version of this song, so it occupies a special place in my heart as the only new John Foxx track I heard between 1985 and 1995.

Cities Of Light 1
Not as good as the TPOE version.

Your Kisses Burn
Starts off sounding like that dreadful 'Macarena' song and plummets thereon in. You can actually sing the words of 'Macarena' over the top of it - go on - try it.

Remember
Utterly unmemorable.

Concrete, Bulletproof, Invisible
The version on 'Shifting City' was my least favourite Foxx song. No longer because this is even worse.

Invisible Women
Not very good.


There are the some remixes of three tracks. I haven't even bothered to listen to those.

To quote that Brummy lady who used to be on 'Juke Box Jury', "I'll give it five.' Out of 100.

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Thankyou Harold...at last an honest opinion!

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Thankyou Harold...at last a longer opinion!

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Quote:
Originally posted by MemberD:
Thankyou Harold...at last an honest opinion!
hmmm, the implication of that statement being confused

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Quote:
Originally posted by maryann:
hmmm, the implication of that statement being confused
Somebody knocking a JF 'project' ! it just sounded incredibly honest. I notice then even when we discuss stuff like 'Mysterious Ways' we're always trying to 'defend' it somehow, whereas for me it was the last straw after a disappointing Golden Section.."and now this..!"

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Quote:
Originally posted by newvox:
From the standard set by John Foxx albums, this is not too good.
Short , but honest from the start!

As we all were.

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Quote:
Originally posted by MemberD:
Quote:
Originally posted by maryann:
[b] hmmm, the implication of that statement being confused
Somebody knocking a JF 'project' ! it just sounded incredibly honest.[/b]
The implication being confused
An opinion is just that, an opinion. Two people sharing an opinion should not discredit differing opinions. I think everyone who posted here was being honest in their views and trying to let you formulate your own opinion.

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fair enough :rolleyes:

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ha! ha! ..just saw your 'what are you listening to..' post MaryAnn !! was that provoked or just a coincidence!? cool

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Having laid into 'Electrofear', I will try to redress the balance by sticking up for 'IMW.' I think that 'Stepping Softly' and 'IMW' are great 'highs' which help balance out the overall blandness of most of the rest of the album. 'Stars on 45' and 'Morning Glory' do belong in the dustbin and the rest of the album I can take or leave.

But it's been said before (if not here then elsewhere) that in 1984/5 just about all music was crap so in that respect 'IMW' is primus inter pares.

To return to 'Electrofear', there's no substitute for hearing it for yourself. You might like it. On the other hand, I think you will most likely be made aware of why it was never released at the time (i.e. it's shite.)

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hm ... let's jus' say that john was somehow "distracted" by certain other , much more interesting ( & also personal ;-) things than making music of whatever kind between the mid-80s & the mid-90s ! ;-)

i leave the rest up to your own imagination , fellows ! :-)

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My view of Electrofear has it as an album of demo tracks, of which some are not-very-Foxxy as the rest of the collaborators presumably took more control over them.

Listen to the Drummer and Electrofear are Drum and Bass efforts that sound completely out of place, while Into the Wonderful and the more passable eponym seem heavily influenced in that direction too.

The remixes at the end don't really do it for me.

I quite like the rest though, which is most of it.

I have judiciously transported the best bits to a compilation cd of my own so as not to waste time with some of the lesser tracks - that was my solution.

Worth "remembering" that Concrete, Bulletproof, Invisible and Remember have their titles transposed on the sleeve, and the second last track is actually Remember!

...if you can remember that.

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Yeah - I think the main thing to remember with the Nation 12 album is that it is, as others above have said, just a load of old salvaged demos -
i.e. even the people making it didn't think it was "finished" and "good enough to release" as it stood...

Really, it's just cos of the curiosity of people like ourselves that it was dredged up and released.
So it would be churlish to complain on hearing the thing that it was half-baked.... that should be taken as a given before you press play!

It's not rubbish though, and I think most of us would agree that they were promising demos, and could've been worked up into pretty good tracks. And there's some great melodies (like the one which became "Through My Sleeping")

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Totally agree with feline, there's some good, albeit raw, stuff on there, and it's nice to here other sides to John's music. So what is your own opinion Member D?
Cheers

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I'm happy with the results. Excellent version of Through My Sleeping. She Was is another gem. A must in John´s back-catalogue.

I hope John releases the Blitz recordings. I believe there´s another version of Through My Sleeping.

http://www.ultravox.org.uk/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=000014

Actually there is!

Chris C wink

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Quote:
Originally posted by Chris C:
I hope John releases the [b]Blitz recordings. [/b]
i can only second that , as they are maybe even more interesting & of better ( sound ) quality than the nation 12 recordings , as i suppose from what paul simon has written over @ the ev forum about a year ago ! ;-)

cheers ! :-)

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Quote:
Originally posted by Craig:
So what is your own opinion Member D?
Cheers
Thanks for bringing me back into this Craig, but to tell you all the truth I still haven't had the time to get me ears round it. Promise to do so soon! meantime it's good to hear all your various opinions.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Chris C:
I'm happy with the results. Excellent version of [b]Through My Sleeping. She Was is another gem. A must in John´s back-catalogue.

I hope John releases the Blitz recordings. I believe there´s another version of Through My Sleeping.

http://www.ultravox.org.uk/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=000014

Actually there is!

Chris C wink [/b]
good points. i love "and she was." i also like the nation 12 version of "cities of light," which sounds like a whole style unto itself. smile

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also, finding those first 12-inch singles was a nice surprise. something drew me to a particular dance-only music store one day sometime before 1994 and there they were on the wall. i couldn't believe my eyes since it'd seemed like lifetimes in the past when 'in mysterious ways' came out. i instantly loved the packaging and was surprised, later, in a good way, with the music. i'd had the name "nation 12" in mind for a year or so before that because a friend had told me that he'd read in "q" that foxx was involved in something w/that name.

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What I find interesting is hearing Cities of Light 1, Invisible Women, Leaving and Your Kisses Burn – all of which eventually turned up, often radically re-worked and re-titled on Shifting City, TPOE and From Trash.

It's interesting to note that "Leaving" became "Through My Sleeping" during the Blitz sessions. I love that song, and I guess John was always fond of it, to persist with it, eventually finishing it with Louis for Shifting City.

Same with "Sailing On Sunshine", now on Sideways. I only read about this yesterday, and had no idea that it came out of the Blitz sessions.

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Sailing on Sunshine is one of my faves, didn't know it came from so far back (when were these Blitz sessions anyway?) confused

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Early 1993 according to Paul's posting on EV.

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On 'Electrofear' i like 'leaving', 'Citys Of Light 1', and 'Invisible Women' mostly.

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i love the track 'nation 12.' i love foxx's vocoder voice. i'm assuming that's what's going on. it sounds like him. it's a beautiful track.

i've just got to add that i really do love 'cities of light' the nation 12 version. it doesn't make me think of paris because of the plural. this track is heavenly + really makes me feel like i'm ascending the clouds, gray, white and gold and seeing ... well, cities of light.

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I found that Electrofear grows on you more and more over time. Tracks that I wasn't quite sure of at first, I later got quite into.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Alex S:
I found that Electrofear grows on you more and more over time. Tracks that I wasn't quite sure of at first, I later got quite into.
Same for me.

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It took me a while as well,I did play it solidly for 2 weeks though when I first had it.Still dont like Let the Drummer get Wicked though.

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Its about the same for me regarding that 'Drummer' track.
Thats the most non Foxxy track i think John's even been on.....probably. confused

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Nation 12 on the whole it's OK but I can't stand that Drummer track. Always skip that one.
Peter smile

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where is that sample "drummer get wicked" from originally? i just heard it recently on something i used to be familiar with (public enemy?)

anyway, while searching for this answer, i found this about shem:

Shem formed Ramp in the early 90's with musician Simon Rogers, exploring a developing love of twisted progressive sounds and general club silliness. The decks gathered dust but the tracks came thick and fast: Nation 12 'Listen To The Drummer', Ramp 'Rock The Discotek', and yet more remixes, this time for D:Ream, Sister Sledge, Armand Van Helden, Yazz and Boy George. On his own Shem slowly became Slacker, eager to offload some of his darker samples and release the psychedelic demons he'd picked up by accident on trips to Goa and Thailand.

http://www.emimusicpub.co.uk/worldwide/artist_profile/shem-mccauley_profile.html

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I think it is from a Public Enemy track from c1990, then made more famous by superstar DJ Chad Jackson.
His single is one of the crowning moments of hip hop and has itself been sampled a skwillion times.

The Nation 12 track of the same name was a bigger hit than the A Side on the dance floors of the early 1990s and (as far as I know) has little, nothing or less to do with John Foxx.


For archive snippets, sparks of electroflesh and news about this website follow me on Twitter @foxxmetamatic
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Yeah I don't think he had anything to do with the drummer track. Personally I think his influence is clearly audiable on the tracks he was involved with.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Birdsong:
I think it is from a Public Enemy track from c1990, then made more famous by superstar DJ Chad Jackson.
His single is one of the crowning moments of hip hop and has itself been sampled a skwillion times.

The Nation 12 track of the same name was a bigger hit than the A Side on the dance floors of the early 1990s and (as far as I know) has little, nothing or less to do with John Foxx.
yeah, i keep hearing it in strange places. thanks.

what's that thing that's being said with sped-up vox, "brrr stick 'em/ha-ha stick 'em?" that's very strange. it makes me laugh.

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i like the track, 'remember' 'cause it's nice 'n creepy. like a murder mystery. cool and it's got that chill factor/chills-up-the-spine. even now. i'm gonna put it on right now.

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When I heard about Nation 12 I actually went to the local "DJ" store to buy it and they had it! I wa sglad since the two times I went in there to specifically get something that catered to that market, they always had it. {The other release was Dr. Robert's Starjuice EP].

So I went home and put it on. And HATED IT. Let me say that I didn't get "Remember" until the late 90s! This was the time when I had just heard about "Electrofear." And "Electrofear" had the distinction of being the only Foxx related track that was disappointing to me. I finally got "Remember" once e-bay existed and quite liked it! The A-side, at least. If I NEVER "Listen to the Drummer" again, it'll be too soon.

But I have the Nation 12 CD and really like about half of it. Yes, the remixes stink, but it is a fascinating glimpse into a project that almost never was.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Alex S:
[QB] My copy of In Mysterious Ways is consigned to a corner where it sits gathering dust frown
That's a pity!

As an example of his romantic period, its quite good. Better than most of the syrupy pop around. My favourites are This Side of Paradise and the single version of Endlessly.

In fact, I'm weening my 3yo niece off Britney Spears by getting her to sing to Enter the Angel!

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Quote:
Originally posted by Harold Halloway:
Here's the View From The Halloway:

Concrete, Bulletproof, Invisible
The version on 'Shifting City' was my least favourite Foxx song. No longer because this is even worse.

There are the some remixes of three tracks. I haven't even bothered to listen to those.
I love the version of CBI on Shifting City. In fact, it and An Ocean We Can Breathe are about the only tracks I still frequently listen to from that album.

The remixes are so-so. Probably better than the rest of the album.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Atom Man:
I love the version of CBI on [b]Shifting City. In fact, it and An Ocean We Can Breathe are about the only tracks I still frequently listen to from that album.
[/b]
How can you love CBI? It's like five minutes of being hit over the head with a biscuit tin full of gravel. Oh well, it takes all sorts... wink

I agree with you about 'Ocean' though. I like the whole album although I think at the time it wasn't so much the quality of the album as the sheer relief that John had finally released another album.

Best,
H.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Halloway:
How can you love CBI? It's like five minutes of being hit over the head with a biscuit tin full of gravel. Oh well, it takes all sorts... wink
There's something about its opening and the beat that appeals to me. Its very danceable.
Quote:

I agree with you about 'Ocean' though. I like the whole album although I think at the time it wasn't so much the quality of the album as the sheer relief that John had finally released another album.
I'd have to agree there although the 5 track SOE CD did that for me. I got it before I got Shifting City. When it came out, I rush to buy it and I was stunned. I kept playing it over and over again.

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Playing this album again now, I'm struck by how many elements of it are entirely innkeeping with the rough-diamond style employed on Sideways, and particularly Impossible.

The tracks She Was and Shadow Dancing are becoming favourites on an album I've always liked. There is a rawness about them, especially the former, which hints at the grainy B-Movie soundtracks. There is a subtle sci-fi, dystopian thread running through it, and the under-production is very effective and heralds the ideas that we have seen explored recently in more depth.

I'd advocate this album as being more significant than its given credit for. Florian for instance, echoes 'Neon Lights' very effectively, setting the scene for sonic ideas developed on TPOE.


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Quote:
Originally posted by Birdsong:
Playing this album again now, I'm struck by how many elements of it are entirely innkeeping with the rough-diamond style employed on Sideways, and particularly [b]Impossible.

The tracks She Was and Shadow Dancing are becoming favourites on an album I've always liked. There is a rawness about them, especially the former, which hints at the grainy B-Movie soundtracks. There is a subtle sci-fi, dystopian thread running through it, and the under-production is very effective and heralds the ideas that we have seen explored recently in more depth.

I'd advocate this album as being more significant than its given credit for. Florian for instance, echoes 'Neon Lights' very effectively, setting the scene for sonic ideas developed on TPOE. [/b]
I totally agree Martin.

I've been playing my second boxset copy all week.
As I've said before the more i play it the more i like it.

Underated is an overused word but not here.

My view of this album has done a complete U-turn since first hearing it.

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