Metamatic Forums John Foxx John Foxx John Foxx - bigger now than ever?

It's clear to us all (and hopefully many, many others...) that John Foxx is undergoing something of a renaissance at the moment. Thanks to Steve's input, strategy, hard work etc, and all the others involved making 'now' what it is, John Foxx is now enjoying probably the highest profile of his career. Certainly since the 'shallow' days of pop stardom in 80/81.

His music and art reaches across many spectrums and touches many genres in all kinds of hidden and subtle ways, and there is certainly more of it available now than there has ever been.

I'm thinking that John must surely soon be invited to appear on the Culture Show/the South Bank Show/Desert Island Discs be awarded a Mobo/Emmy/Novello/achievement - something.

As far as I'm aware only a couple of very short pieces have ever been used in film soundtracks and the like. I'm sure its only a matter of time before something is used, for instance, in a TV commercial, or he gets approached to score a film, contribute art to a major commercial project of something. That really would seal his place in the scheme of things and - inevitably - sort that retirement plan out once and for all.

I know there were a lot of journalists/media pixies at Cargo last night, all of whom could have a part to play in making a legacy from this fruitful period that will benefit not only John but his family and the music business for generations to come.

I started thinking of a TV ad at first, which quickly developed into the Thought Experiment described above.

What does anyone else think?

Some nice thoughts there Martin. One of the discussions we had yesterday (before you arrived) was looking at Johns solo career. 1980/83 there were only 4 albums plus "B" sides on vinyl. Now John dominates my CD collection. He has certainly been more prolific since his return and I'm that I'm sure is down to Steve Malins and meeting Louis Gordon.

For me John has always been a cult artist and has a loyal group of fans. I wonder sometimes if John ever sought fame and fortune? I'm guessing that music for him is primarily an hobby, has opposed to a main source of income. I'm sure that comes from lecturing.

How many times have I heard John Foxx WHO?

It's well known that he has been a big influence on many artisits and has been credited for this in many articles.

I'd love to see John's name more widely known amongst the general public. I'm sure one day he'll receive wider recognition plus someone will use his music for an advert on TV and on the grander scale perhaps a film.

Going to Japan and Australia can't have done him any harm. I know fans in the USA would love to see him and I'm surprised he hasn't been there yet.


I'm glad that he's still around doing what he does best.

Bigger than ever - Yes

Peter

Well, if we leap back to those four solo albums of the '80's which all of us have been revisiting very intently in some way or the other, we feel without any hesitation that one or two of these are the type of classics that hopefully will come back around again into their own season. There’s also the great expectation that eventually people will be able to rediscover them as enthusiastically as when we first encountered them, and that this will grow over time until finally their status has been permanently raised as icons of their time and place.

I think we all hope or feel that there is always just a chance that another golden age may happen with John’s music, it may be smaller than before, but I’m sure it could be just as rewarding as those past classic’s were. He’s an older gentleman now, but still with a young heart full of passion for his work, able to keep proceeding with it amidst life’s hurdles against person and creativity, and that, and luck, are the factors that a good artist always needs in order to be able to remain being an artist.

While I've been 'pondering' IMW I’ve become really convinced that John has another classic waiting within him. He didn’t really finish off the path he was on, he got momentarily lost, but I don’t think he went completely down a blind alley either. Maybe he needs to attempt the risky path again as he did earlier, and I really hope that with whatever factors there are in the ether right now that all of these are going to be positive and contribute to allowing that to happen again for him.

Also, sites like YouTube and MySpace is most likely to be exposing John's works to a wider audience, as well as making it easy to access his music and his works as a visual artist (i.e. TCM), no?

His avant garde stuff with Ultravox and his first four solo albums made a real impression on me. He does attract those with an arty taste in music and perhaps not the ordinary man who wants to hear what's popular in the charts and in the discos.

However, his renaissance has been spectacular and he is as creative as ever. As a fan, I'm ecstatic (as you already know from my posts) about all his releases in this century.

Even though there has been a considerable number of releases in the last couple of years this has by no means diluted his creativity. Every release is unique and exciting as the other. There's a lot of thought, attention and craftmanship gone into the music, design, packaging and promotion. John has a fantastic team around him.

On-line promotion and selling has helped in distributing John's work to evey corner of the globe and naturally to everyone who likes John and to everyone who wants to discover his art.

It won't be long when one of his tunes gets selected for a commercial. Film music may happen one day.

Touring places like Japan and Australia has been positive moves. Canada and the US would be next and other places like Italy (again), Germany and France accompanied by some promotion.

There's no need for lavish shows or state of the art stage presentation. John has got it right and the slide-shows and minimalistic lighting works. The Human League used this to great effect in their early days. A John Foxx concert breathes vintage, classic, analogue...retro-future romance.

Chris

Well said, John just needs to keep this beast in good shape. His renaissance draws strength from staying on the path that so well defines his musical style, but I hope that he can also be afforded the luxury to take a risk with more experimentation, and reveal his 'Kid A', to his 'OK Computer', and maybe release something wilder running parallel to the tried and trusted horse that he knows will always carry him safely home.

I think to a certain extent he does that... with Cathedral Oceans and the Tiny Colour Movies projects.

When I saw John in Japan on the two nights he played here, one thing was very clear - he was enjoying himself. So was Louis. When I compare that to the time I saw him in '83 I can't recall seeing such a genuine smile as well as really getting in to the music.

Maybe that enjoyment is coming across well, as well as a wealth of good material that is being discovered or rediscovered. As for appering on TV, etc? Nah, we should keep it our little secret! I think that once the scale gets bigger the enjoyment could probably disappear. Of course I realise that this could be a loss of income for John, but I have never had him in the "in it for the money" category - he is just too creative and in many ways, ahead of his time!

I would agree with you about the motives, re 'cash' etc. I hope I haven't implied that and I genuinely believe that wouldn't be the reason for doing anything like we are discussing.

My angle was really more about John being approached with opportunities in respect of his higher public profile now, and the recognition of his influence on things

I think you're absolutely right here.
For my money, this material is John's very best and the kind of thing, I think, he is moving more towards. Hence the suggestion there may not be any 'electro' dates next year...

I think some of the reason John's had so much success of late is because he covers so many musical areas. These days its electronic albums, the 'C.O.' trilogy, 'TCM', and piano works with Harold Budd etc. Im sure the suggestion of no 'electro' dates next year, is more to do with no follow up to 'From Trash' at this moment. It would be wrong for John to restrict himself to one or two areas only, when obviously things have been working fine this way.

As for fame and money. I dont think John wants more than he already has. Its also unlikely that releasing loads of albums would increase the fame at this stage in his career. Maybe hes become more well known again, but thats a different thing. And sure, hes making a bit more money again these days. The bottom line though i think, is that John's enjoying what he does now more than ever, and hes making all these albums for himself and us, the select 'few'.

Even so, it would be nice for 'the wider stage' to notice John's brilliant writing skills, be it just for one song, or a film score.

Not aimed at you old chap, just covering the general bases!

I just wish he could make some inroads here in North America also. Many people here are missing out on this great music.

I feel that these are really very safe projects, certainly in terms of multimedia and installation work. But I really would like to see him step just a bit more out of his comfort zone of the type of music he and Louis have been doing for some time now. Call me crazy but I would like to see him entertain again some of, but certainly not all of, those risky notions he had a long time ago about being ‘influenced’ by other artistic styles.
I will be the first to hold up my hand and say, yes but it’s the Metamatic kind of music he makes so well now that’s brought me back to John, and has clearly been what many others want to hear from him also. Sure, I don’t want him to blow it, but I think with Louis by his side he has now got someone he trusts to remind him not to rock the boat too much, and that he shouldn’t lean over the edge too far while fishing for new ideas.

I think CO is a worthy project in it’s own right, and as an installation piece designed for a church environment it fits in beautifully as a part of the Foxxian musical landscape.
I love the fake collector persona that John has invented for the background to the TCM ‘found’ films, but save for a few tracks I remain to be convinced of it musically, and I agree also that a large part of John probably wants to move more in this video direction. I think he’s had to long ago give up any ambition of making a movie, which he used to state was reliant on having a couple of big hit’s, but he’s certainly not alone in that thwarted desire, and ever cheaper multimedia and video will continue to allow an accessible avenue for many people minus a budget or a studio to express themselves very creatively in sound and vision.


Is John Foxx bigger now than ever? Well, for me on a personal level yes, he must be, when I look at his presence in my choice of music, in my expectation of something exciting to look forward to on the horizon, on my ‘arty’ radar, in the fact that I’m typing this on a site that I only used to glance at a few times a year in some quiet hope, then yes something good has definitely happened.

I don’t know if it’s ‘big’ or not as far as the rest of the music buying public might care, or the press might want to write about, much as we wish, or maybe don’t completely trust, but he and the fantastic team he so clearly needed to have in order to stay this course have all pulled together so successfully in building and reawakening the loyalty of a somewhat commercially invisible but nonetheless tangible underground fanbase, and are assuring this far the continuing legend of our cult Hero.

I know that for me the real call came in ’06 with the From Trash album and tour. Compared to the reserved ’03 gig that was the first sighting of John for me in this millennium, the From Trash show had so many unexpectedly enthusiastic people present that I was completely taken aback, where had all these excitable fans come from! John’s return soon gathered dizzying speed for me after that with the approach of the ’07 tour when I found myself counting the days to seeing John play again, and by that point the arrival of new albums or announcement of tours seemed to be an almost everyday normal occurrence for this ‘quiet man’ whom I’d only seen once during his past peak, four albums and then nothing.

I can only respect the dedication of all the other fans who eagerly got back on board in ’97 with Shifting City, that they had been very patiently and closely viewing this longer picture of John and Louis gradually bringing out the CD’s, and the other facet’s of John’s work emerging with the continuing CO albums, and the final unveiling of the cathedral shows, together with the similar avenue of TCM.

Could, or should we bring record sales during this renaissance period into this question, and compare them to the past in terms of recognition, or financial reward, is this fair? And has John had a moment or two since, maybe with the Drive EP, the closest thing there’s been to a single’s release, when the memory of that past golden period that he enjoyed might vaguely have come into view again in his mind?

We all know now that he passed safely through the fall from his ‘80’s grace, and he must have reaped many benefits of that past. He has his teaching post now, and has found the creative space in the life he leads, and the devout audience is here once more for the sleek and angular electronic music he makes so well. Surely he now make’s his music more for passion than necessarily for income or sustenance, but has he seen that distant glow of the bright past surface in today’s work, and wished for it to shine so bright again for his future now? Or has he ignored that notion, and just put his head down again and back to work.

I think the real question we would like an answer to is just how big does Dennis Leigh actually want John Foxx to become again?

John has clearly gathered momentum in recent years - a far cry from the obscure, seemingly little known artist I got into almost a decade ago.

Certainly since 2003, I think John's music has reached a much wider audience, and since his presence graced extremely popular sites such as MySpace and YouTube, new fans had access to his music and fans of old rediscovered his music and started catching up.

Who would have thought that he would have released so much new material in such a short space of time? I often wonder if he's been persuaded to release a lot more than he would, if he'd been left to his own devices. Part of me does wonder if it's a rush to 'complete the picture' before a subtle 'retirement'... I think John could easily vanish back into oblivion, if he wanted, but this time leaving a real wealth of exciting and unique material to a whole new generation of fans.

Or perhaps it is purely workaholism and a second (or third?) creative peak... his work with Louis clearly helped John find his feet again, putting him back where he belonged. Except this time round, he's clearly been enjoying himself.

But to the title of this thread - "bigger than ever"? Perhaps, yes. Chart success doesn't count for anything these days, and he never had much of that anyway. His profile was perhaps more prominent back in the early 80s, with umpteen single releases and TV appearances. However, he's done a lot more in the last few years than back then.. more touring, more collaborations, more new material, and in my opinion, a higher quality of work overall. He is probably right where he wants to be at this present time.

Before, John was part of the pop music scene, competing against everyone else, succombing to commercialism and label pressure etc. These days he's clearly in control of what he releases, and when, comfortably outside of the load of rubbish known as the 'charts'.

Alex S has drawn attention to a very real possibility, which I think I’m correct in saying that he’s perceptively mentioned before here on the forum.

It’s a thought I’ve tried to quickly brush aside, as it echo’s a concern of my own over all the rush about releasing the old material. It’s not only the original album in remastered form, but many other elements are finally given the light of day to us, some of which are very revealing about John’s ‘working method’ in getting to a new style re: Spin away, and Shine on me. It really does feel like someone reaching a point of finally getting around to tidying up everything into it’s place, and telling us all a few home truth’s from the past before they go away. And then there’s also the ‘artist’s statement’ on the horizon in the form of a double CD of interview’s, and possibly even more musical out-takes for each one of those last ‘80’s works.

John is clearly drawing a line now between that time and the last ten years or more of his work with Louis, and even some of that is also being promised for us as reappraised and new edition CD’s. I still hope that he’s merely clearing the deck’s to keep the flow of new material coming, which I suspect may be slowing down again now, there were a few longer gaps of years between his work since his ’97 return, up till a year or so ago.

I’m still hoping a late years classic album or two will emerge, and I don’t mean to say that I don’t place a high regard on this decades work, I value so much of it very highly, I kind of think of this as a fantastic Silver period for John, and an unexpected reward for us. I hesitate to make him sound old by saying that there’s been many other people in the art’s who have found a brilliant reawakening in their much later years, but that’s exactly what can happen if the factor’s are right, and so far they seem to be for him.

This is a really good subject Martin.

I think the short answer is that the world has just come round to his way of thinking, and Foxx has found easier avenues of communication that are working.

A bit like Ballard really. In the sense that, they had to stop writing the words 'SCIENCE FICTION' on the spine because as the world caught up and realised, most of what Ballard was positing was becoming a reality.

I'd like to respond to Martin's very interesting comments on the currency of JF at the moment. I agree. His profile is certainly higher than it's been for, well, ever really. This is particularly because of younger (and more successful in the 'popular' sense) bands who cite him as a major influence: The Klaxons and the soon-to-be-huge Late of the Pier. It's very encouraging that he's being cited as an influence by artists who weren't even born when Metamatic was released. According to a journalist/friend, JF is (or has been - will find out) about to be discussed, albeit briefly, in an article in 'The Telegraph' with regard to Late of the Pier. That would have been unthinkable any time earlier.

I don't think John's going to get on the Culture Show or any equivalent, but it would be nice to eat my own words. An advert would be fascinating (as long as it wasn't for a washing product or toiletries - TCM used for selling Tampax? Perish the thought). It would also help if some of his music crossed over into dance much more forcibly - the fabulous Burning Car remix has certainly turned a few of my friends' heads and none of them are 'fans' in any sense of the word.

Exciting times for John and us.

A free copy of The Garden with The Times might do the trick...... but seriously, it is hard to think of another artist who is still so active and productive after so many years. I still think he's far from mainstream tho and probably isn't too bothered about being mainstream either, and neither am I to be honest.
Not that there's any comparison but I saw Martin Fry on some crummy chat show on daytime British TV when the new ABC album came out and I just thought 'how sad'... We don't need that kind of thing.

Thinking back, John's always been very tall. Just look at the group picture on the first 'Ultravox!' album.

:rolleyes:

Sorry guys. Im in a weird 'no Maryann around' mood today.

Well, don't you shrink as you get older, so it's quite possible he was slightly bigger back then...?!

Yeah, when I met John in person at the Tivoli, I swear he was towering over me.

Well y'know the old saying. "With concentration..my size increased.." ..

Me too, in the good old (but less releases) days.

I used to get e-mails like that, until I sorted out my SPAM filter. (oo-err missus)