Metamatic Forums Socialising The Green Room Joy Division

I'm sure I'm not the only Foxx fan on here with a love for Joy Division, so for those who care - the tracklists for the re-re-re-re-issued JD albums have finally arrived in the deluge of stuff that will no doubt arrive once the film 'Control' gets released next month.

All are 2CD sets, the first CD being the original album. The second CD in each set is a different gig recording. ULU and High Wycombe are taken from the master tapes of an audience recording;

Unknown Pleasures CD2: The Factory, Manchester Live 11 April 1980

Disc: 2
1. Dead Souls
2. The Only Mistake
3. Insight
4. Candidate
5. Wilderness
6. She's Lost Control
7. Shadowplay
8. Disorder
9. Interzone
10. Atrocity Exhibition
11. Novelty
12. Transmission

Closer CD2: University of London Union Live '80

Disc: 2
1. Dead Souls
2. Glass
3. A Means To An End
4. Twenty Four Hours
5. Passover
6. Insight
7. Colony
8. These Days
9. Love Will Tear Us Apart
10. Isolation

11. The Eternal (Encore)
12. Digital (Encore)

Still CD2: High Wycombe Town Hall Live 20 February 1980

Disc: 2
1. The Sound Of Music
2. A Means To An End
3. Colony
4. Twenty Four Hours
5. Isolation
6. Love Will Tear Us Apart
7. Disorder
8. Atrocity Exhibition

9. Isolation (Sound Check)
10. The Eternal (Sound Check)
11. Ice Age (Sound Check)
12. Disorder (Sound Check)
13. The Sound Of Music (Sound Check)
14. The Eternal (Sound Check)

There's also a Limited Edition vinyl box-set, with all 3 albums ('Still' back in it's original hessian book-style design with ribbon), but it's £160 on Amazon, which is quite frankly, taking the mick!

Garry

Thanks for the info Garry .. had no idea these were being done. I notice all the 'extras' are live gigs ... no B sides or things like that ??(cf Metamatic 2CD set)

My fave studio album is Closer by the way.

I've been listening to 'Closer' a lot recently too!

I think the reason there are no B-sides is because of the definitive box-set 'Heart and Soul' released 10 years ago; http://www.amazon.co.uk/Heart-Soul-Joy-D...88559155&sr=8-4
Which has both the studio albums, B-sides, unreleased recordings, live recordings, some Peel session material and pretty much everything you'll ever need.

Thanks for this Garry.

I confess to not having much JD material on CD, but plenty of New Order!

I might invest in this. JD did some fantastic tracks. Certainly a great listing.

Sarah

yep ... it really incl. "EVERYTHING u'll ever need" by jd & so i'll stick with that one ! ;-)

thanx for the info , anyway , garry ! :-)

i'm a big joy division fan (and even bigger new order fan) so i'll probably will buy these remastered versions, i'm just wondering why there's no remaster of 'substance', which basically collects all the non-album material. also i think there's really no point in putting these live recordings out with the albums, i'd prefer one-disc remasters and a triple-cd of live material.

unknown pleasures is my fave (substance is even better but it's a comp).

the new Closer is up for £16 on Amazon which seems a bit steep to me ... plus they all have different prices - is that depending on which one they think will sell the most / least ?' (Still £12, U.Pleas £14) ...

It is mine too. Believe it or not it is mentioned somewhere that it is George Michael's all time favourite album. All Heart and Soul for George!

Unknown Pleasures succeeds in depicting perfectly it's theme, Manchester in 79 and Ian coming as a modern day messiah like most pop stars aim to be! It's a very uniform album, very well produced by Martin Hannett, all instruments played exceptionally well, although too dark for my taste.

Closer was more of a collection of songs as the band was moving into a more commercial direction . The album couldn't be finished properly due to Ian's untimely death. Over 10 songs had been finished but not the album concept. Yet it proved to be a masterpiece just for Ian's prose in the advent of his suicide.

Really intriguing was Ian's death. As we all have read he was going through the pressures of a pop star, taking drugs for his epilepsy, going though a marriage break-up and moreover he was a depressive character. It's mentioned that when Ian committed suicide he was listening to Iggy Pop's The Idiot. There's nothing suicidal about this album. It was probably his favourite, so he played it. I've also read somewhere that Ian was obsessed with the Throbbing Gristle track Weeping , which I've never heard before. Those who are into TG would know this track and like most TG tracks are very shocking and venomous! On Genesis' diary notes he mentioned that the night before his suicide Ian was very depressed and was heavy on this song and sounded very suicidal on the phone. Genesis warned some of his friends but did not believe him. The rest was tragedy.

http://www.genesisp-orridge.com/index.php?section=article&id=65

Anyhow, yep Heart and Soul box set is the definitive collection of a band that became New Order and continued to influence British pop music. Like Ultravox, a band of excellent musicians.

Chris

Isn't there a film coming out or something about Ian Curtis?

Hi Mark,

There is indeed, which is probably why the albums have been given a spring clean. The movie is called 'Control'the film will be released in the UK on the 5th October.

I know that New Order added some new soundtrack music and that it was co-produced by Deborah Curtis, Ian's widow and the late, great Tony Wilson.

http://momentum.control.substance001.com/Main.html

As everyone knows I am a big Interpol fan and the comparisons to Joy Division are too numerous to mention. So I have decided to find out for myself why the comparisons.

I do not own any Joy Division so I am asking: Which one should I get first?

the "closer" album - without a doubt !

No, "Substance" first.

yeah I agree, although "Permanent" will give you the broader picture.

edit: sorry I meant I agree with "Closer" ..don't know the difference between Permanent and Substance..

Substance has all the non-lp material, all the single A and B -sides.

Hi Maryann,

Just to confuse you even further... I disagree with almost everyone on here. 'Substance' and 'Permanent' do great jobs at shovelling all the singles and B sides etc, but this can just sound dis-jointed.

To get a true picture of the band, go for either of the two studio albums - 'Unknown Pleasures' and 'Closer' - you can't go wrong with either, and each one has it's own individual style, sound, colour and space in the music.

yeah well, like me and another said: get 'Closer' !!

as maryann asked because she likes interpol & they are quite often compared with jd , "closer" is the album that she would certainly like , imho ! ;-)

that's my reason for recommending that specific album to her 1st & foremost ! :-)

Heh! Heh! 'Unknown Pleasures'!

Ping-pong with Joy Division albums! It'll confuse the hell out of Maryann but, hey ho!

i've never got on with UP very much ..God knows I've tried.

BTW is that 'Closer' as in 'more close' or as in 'something which closes, as opposed to which opens..' . .i.e. hard or soft 's' ....

come on , m8 !
if u really got that album , u should know the answer to that question !

it's the latter one , of course !

There’s many myths that surround ‘Closer’; the sleeve design is Factory cashing in on the death of Curtis; the title is a pun and is actually pronounced ‘Close-er’; the album wasn’t finished properly – etc etc.

The sleeve design was actually decided by the whole band (including Curtis) and management – in the same afternoon they also chose the sleeves for ‘Love Will Tear Us Apart’. It’s just bad timing and a horrible coincidence that the photographs used are from tombstones!

The title is just ‘Closer’ because the band were having a dig at Hannett. None of the band felt that ‘Unknown Pleasures’ came close to JDs powerful live sound, so this time Sumner, Morris and Hook sat in on the sessions to make sure Hannett didn’t have it all his own way. Hence the album is ‘Closer’ to what the band wanted rather than Hannett.

The album was finished properly – they even recorded ‘Love Will Tear Us Apart’ and ‘These Days’ in the same sessions but left them off as they did not fit the overall feel of the album. JD also refused to put singles on albums feeling that it was selling out and short-changing the fans.

Sorry, I didn't quite catch that Beach .. hard or soft?

I guess phonetically it would be 'Cloze-er'; ie - to close. But this is just myth, it's actually just 'Closer' as in 'moving closer to an object'

My thoughts exactly, Garry. Greatest hits, compilations, etc etc never give a true enough picture. Especially for a first time listener like me.

I will go for a studio album first.

Thanks everyone for the responses.

beach . Ok, thought so .. I think it was John Peel who brought up the 'Clozer' debate ..

mayann . Ok fine. I did say Permanent is for 'the broader' picture, but Closer is my first choice.

Perhaps I will go with whichever is less money

Whichever you choose Maryann - enjoy!

On this side of the pond - you all might be interested to know that on BBC Four on Friday there's film length documentary - 'Factory: Manchester from Joy Division to Happy Mondays'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/listings/pr...service_id=4544

With the film coming, I guess there's going to be a lot of interest over the coming months.

LOL ..That's what it also boils down to with me often!

Having listened to the remastered editions I have to say that if you already own 'Unknown Pleasures', 'Closer' and 'Still' and aren't a sad anorak obsessive (like me) and aren't really interested in live recordings then these new editions just aren't essential.

The Unknown Pleasures CD2: The Factory, Manchester Live 11 April 1980 is the same gig as the one on the 'Heart and Soul' box set...just two extra live cuts make the difference!

The other two live recordings that accompany 'Closer' and 'Still' arent that extraordinary. Although at least 'Ice Age' on 'Still' now plays at the correct speed.

Maybe im wrong maryann, but when we were on holiday did'nt you buy 'Substance'
at Virgin.

You may be right. I am going to have to check when I get home.

I guess I am going to invest in these. I "only" have the Heart and Soul boxset on CD, no wait, also those two live albums released some time back, Preston and the other one. Joy Division live is some experience to hear, whether it is the announcement that the last bus is about to leave for Burnley, or the painful synths on Decades (on Still) which just breathe emotion.

Once I started listening to Joy Divison I knew my tastes would head there away from Erasure. Forever. I still like Erasure a little bit though.

So, did you or didn't you.

Yes I did but I but forgot all about it and never played it. Evidently the sale price was too good for me to pass up

It did.
Especially tracks 11 -17 compared to 1-10. A big disconnect for me.
Maybe I am biased but I thought She Wants Revenge sounds more like them (Joy Division's She's Lost Control is an excellent example of what every SWR song sounds like) than Interpol.

Recieved my copy of 'Substance' today M. Have to give it a few more plays, but im in the same mind about SWR than Interpol too.

Hi Maryann,

Yeah, 11-17 are b-sides, EP tracks and flex-disc tracks, and certainly detract from the straightforward 1-10 tracklisting.

I've not heard of She Wants Revenge - anything of theirs you can recommend?

It will be a while for a reply Garry, New Yorks most shouty is on a weeks holiday without any internet.

Cheers Newvox!

Garry: I relayed your post, so a message from Maryann (deep in mountain country).

M say's to listen to a track called 'Tear You Apart' on what she thinks is their only album to date - 'She Wants Revenge'.

Maryann also wants everyone to know she has missed the forum, and hopes to be back about midweek.

Here I is...back from vacation.
Thanks K for relaying my comments and greetings to all in my absence.


So Garry, have you had the chance to listen to anything by SWR?

Welcome back M.

Living in a 'shed' in the mountains, with only dead mice for company.
When are you ever gonna go on a Butlins holiday. :rolleyes:

Good to be back, K.

At least the bear wasn't around this time.

Butlins

Hi maryann,

Hope you had a nice time despite the mice! I haven't yet no - but their on my list for when I hit the record shops this Saturday!

Thanks Garry, I did. Autumn colors (although muted due to the dry conditions), cool but sunny weather, lots of wildlife to watch.....

Did you mention record shops.........

I think I finally have it sorted out regarding WHO sounds like WHO:

Joy Division came first

Interpol is the best of the new groups and draws the most critical acclaim and comparisons to Joy Division. Perhaps his vocals a bit but I still don't hear it. Maybe I need to hear Closer or another Joy Division cd. Substance certainly did not make me think of the Interpol/Joy Division comaprisons.

However, She Wants Revenge sounds EXACTLY like Joy Division with Interpol mixed in.

The Editors sound like Interpol + The Bravery.

The Bravery and The Killers borrow from each other.

confused

.....and New Order. What order do they fit in this??

They don't sound anything like any of the above mentioned groups. Honestly. I have no idea where they fit in at all.

I think thats partly explained by the fact that New Order decided to not sound like JD, the whole point was a new order of both personal and sound.

Funny thing is, I have almost all of New Order's cds but I don't have a strong opinion either way about them. Like they have not made an impression, or should I say lasting impression, on me. I really cannot explain it.

weird... for me new order is probably the most important band ever, i've been a fan since hearing ceremony on the radio way back in '81.

Yeah, Ceremony is good.

I recently got Get Ready and I like 60 Miles An Hour alot.

I am thinking of getting New Order's singles collection.

Just read some of the reviews here in New York and they are all positive. I did not realize that Anton Corbjin directed the film nor did I know that Anton met and photographed them weeks before Ian's death.

Hi Maryann,

Most of the iconic images of Joy Division were taken by Anton Corbijn and another photographer called Kevin Cummings. I think Cummings is publishing a book of his photos - not sure though.

Thanks Garry for the info.

BTW: I just bought the new SWR cd; I will let you know if they still "remind" me of Joy Division.

And I'll let you know if Sister Ray allow me to buy it!

Funny thing, all the articles out about SWR now still only mention Interpol. I stand firm that they are more Joy Division than Interpol.

Was going to play the new SWR last night but I got caught up in Dance.

Update: The new She Wants Revenge sounds less like Joy Division and more like She Wants Revenge (first album) + Interpol.

Confused yet

Not again..............

I don't know whether it is due to 'Control' being in the theaters or that it is just plain cool now to continually mention Joy Division but a New York paper said this about British Sea Power : " almost like an updated Joy Division.."



I have 2 BSP cds and I do NOT hear Joy Division.

New Order could have been more of a singles band.

Try, their latest compilation, the double CD Singles. It's more than a couple of hours of non-stop brilliant energetic music.

Chris

Thanks Chris, will do so.

.....Except of course if you are me and don't own any Joy Division other than Substance.

Just picked up the remasters and honestly, I am looking forward to hearing the live cds more than the studio remasters.

I hope the live tracks are up to expectation M.

Much of the gig on disc 2 that comes with ‘Unknown Pleasures’ is also on the ‘Heart and Soul’ box set. However, I’d never heard the ULU gig that comes with ‘Closer’– worth the price of the re-issue!

The most bootlegged JD gig is at the Paradiso, Amsterdam 1980. If you can get – do. The mixing desk that night was handled by Hannett himself. Also the support band dropped out so JD performed two sets instead of one! Yowsa!

A word of warning though - the Paradiso gig was issued as a CD as part of the Refractured box-set; this box-set is the worst box-set ever; DO NOT buy it!. It’s all housed in a flimsy box, t-shirt has nothing to do with JD and the Paradiso CD that comes with it also has gaps between the tracks. There are plenty of bootlegs of this gig widely available.

Thanks much for the information, Garry.

These three box sets just came into the store the other day; I actually was surprised because there never tends to be any Joy Division around.
Haven't had a chance to listen to them yet but looking forward to it immensely.

Hi Maryann,

For more info on the gigs, have a look here;

13th July 1979: The Factory/Russell Club,
http://www.joydiv.org/c130779.htm

8th February 1980: University Of London Union
http://www.joydiv.org/c080280.htm

Garry

Thank you, Garry.

If they did not, I can understand why now.

You were so very very right.

Closer is unbelievably good. I almost cannot accept how good it is.

It has been suggested to me that Movement is exceptionally close to the Joy Division 'sound'.

I have not listened to Movement in ages so I will have to give it a play.

Yes, definitely post-Joy Division. They were still finding their way. Hannet's production somewhat lacklustre tho I've always thought. "No reason ever was given."

If Movement is post-JD sound then how does one classify the later New Order years? I honestly cannot get a sense of what New Order is about. I think I need to re-listen to them.

The complete and detailed history of Joy Division & New Order (abridged)

Ian's croaked - Let's change the name, record an album and get Hannett to produce it. Damn! Hannett's back on the smack you can almost hear it, let's not worry - we still have to go and do that Joy Division tour in the states. Hello America! Wow! New York what amazing post-punk discos you have! I know - let's build a nightclub exactly like these ones in NY but...in Manchester, that no-one will ever go to and will lose us lots and lots of money! yeah! great idea! And we'll make NY-Disco music exactly like those Arthur Baker/early electro records we hear on tour, but we won't get Hannett to do it because he's off the rails, and anyway - he wants us to do something sensible like buy a fairlight and build a recording studio...and we'll make a disco record that comes in a really, really expensive art-sleeve that'll cost us lots of money - but who cares? It's art! No one will buy it, it'll never become the biggest selling 12" of all time, so we'll just press a 1000 to start with...

Ha Ha Ha ..hilarious .. no wait that's only Chapter One Beach.

You know, Garry, I finally understand it all !

Well i still dont understand it, i may even have to play some JD.

Their one of the few groups ive ever really listened to, but thats likely to change since M and i discovered the double set's with live cds.

Expect a surprise parcel, K.

What I cannot get over really, is how different NO is musically from their origin.

Would be a good idea for Midge's biography to be made into an abridged version too. Cut it down to say three main topics.

Then again, to save on paper would the author concider re-writing hes work. Cutting out all the O's for example would save a few pages there.....etc etc.

(And other Little Britain rip-offs)

The complete and detailed history of Joy Division & New Order (abridged)Part 2

Hey guys! Lets take lots of drugs listen to house music and appear on Baywatch! Yeah! And then Barney'll get an ego the size of a small universe, Hooky will start crying everytime someone says (a)'Ian'/The Good Old Days, and (b) mentions that Barney has an ego the size of a small universe.

To be continued...?

After you've finished Garry, we need you for the re-printing of Midge's book.

Cheers Newvox!

I'm currently working on an abridged version of The Lord of the Rings trilogy;

Hey everyone we have a ring and it's really good!

Everyone: hooray!

Ooops! We've lost it!

Everyone: Booooooo! Let's Fight! For a VERY LONG TIME

S'alright! Found it again!

Everyone: Hooray!

THE END

Okay here goes:

Midgey's book
Part 1: Fashion
Part 2: Music
Part 3: Women
Part 4: Booze
Part 5: Why doesn't anyone like my solo stuff?
Part 6: @#$%@ Geldof
Part 7: Acoustic
Part 8: Why doesn't anyone like my acoustic solo stuff?

the end

Birthday wishes today to Bernard Sumner of Joy Division (and New Order).