Metamatic Forums John Foxx John Foxx And The Maths Evidence

I received my copy of Evidence yesterday and had my first play today. As alluded to elsewhere on the forum this album feels experimental and quite different to Interplay. I played Xeno & Oaklander Set & Lights straight afterwards. This is an album I have always considered quite left field, but in the context of the preceding music, it felt almost mainstream.

Evidence is beautifully packed with some wonderful artwork. My stand-out track from the first play is My Town.

Mine came yesterday too. It's a bit too early for me to form an objective review. I have to admit, the first couple of listens left me somewhat underwhelmed.

Perhaps it might have been better an EP as originally planned, as I didn't find it had any kind of album-like flow whatsoever. It's certainly more obscure/leftfield than The Shape of Things.

The two tracks which struck me the most are That Sudden Switch and Changelings.

Sets And Lights is on of those 'awkward' albums. I love it, but it has taken me some time to access.

It does work though in the context of Evidence, which serves brilliantly as a gateway to new experience listening to John's collaborators in their own right.

Regarding Alex's comment. I think thats' a shame really. It's easy to expect too much. If it was 'just' an EP then people would doubtless have been baying for new material, so it makes good sense to introduce new pieces that link the more familiar pieces together. It shows also the richness of material and creativity that The Maths have to offer. John Foxx never stands still for long!

I hope it grows on you. First play or two is, I agree, very difficult to comment on objectively.

I'm thinking it'll be a slow grower... one of those albums which needs time.

My immediate first impression was that it did have much more of a "compilation" feel than that of an album, hence my comment about the "flow" above.

Of the new material, it almost feels like a conscious decision to move even further away from the more accessible sound of Interplay. This shift started with the darker, Shape of Things, and has clearly gone further still with Evidence.

That said, for reasons I'm not going into here, I'm not in the best frame of mind for music at present.

Received my copy yesterday. First proper listen this morning, via my phone.

Excellent stuff, I thought, some nice tracks, and weird bits, and then.. Changelings!!! WOW!!!! How good is that?

Worth buying the album for, anyway!

Wasn't "Changelings" a free download a few months ago?

It does stand out as the best track on there for me, I think. That's the one which keeps going around my head, which is odd as when I first heard it a while back (as above?), I didn't care for it whatsoever!

I've listened to the album a few more times on speakers and headphones. It has its moments, but overall it still isn't doing much for me at all, sadly.

Evidence is happening.

Correction. Evidence is 'a happening'.

It soundtracks an event that changed people's lives in a massive Victorian Gothic palace with leaves blowing across the floor and thousands of people experiencing themselves and each other. It's 1967. More or less the same intense and free-thinking landscape that spawned the John Foxx and Louis Gordon album, Sideways.

Outside, litter is blowing into stairwells where it will lie undisturbed for many years.
Inside, giant scaffolding lines the towering walls and people sit on step ladders, swaying and smoking. Some wearing flowers and slightly ridiculous headgear. Others in suits. To the sounds of 'the Floyd' on a stage somewhere near the back, two men, smartly dressed, hold up single digit numbers in an endless random sequence, in front of a projected film of oily slides and merging gaudy colours.
Another film on another wall shows a looped series of automobiles on an endless Los Angeles highway, intercut with grossly exaggerated close-ups of insects, pylons and the faces of unknown smiling women.

Droplets of melody are casually discarded onto the swollen ocean of bass that the floor has become, where Naivety, Experience, Confidence and Experimentation squirm among naked lovers. From the flotsam and detritus of bodies, a woman's voice rises like that of an angel on interstellar overdrive, encapsulating a moment that is not of this world. Transgressional psychedelia.

A young chap in just his underpants, with a towel around his head, rides a unicycle, gyrating in and out of the couples on the floor. Rother, Schneider and Boyle converse with Jan Lenica over coffee. Everything (and everyone) is whimsical, casual, dismissive and slightly odd. There are probably some dogs.

Think of that 1985 album that no-one likes, waltzing around among the stars, but with the gravel left in and the barbs unpicked. Turn on the celestial voices and set the controls for the heart of Shoreditch. Improvisational transcendence. Slightly frantic.

Three movements, a dream sequence and a charge of disorderly conduct. Confusion, laughter. Kaleidoscopes, mirrorballs and a delusional painting machine.

1978 waits behind the door. Like a mongrel waits. And just for that moment, in the early hours of March, she and I are the only lovers left alive. The streets are quiet and the rain is gently falling.

Ceci l'histoire d'un homme -

And I mean that most sincerely.

After a week of examining the evidence, I'm left to conclude that The Maths have done all they can (and perhaps should) in their current form.

Granted, Evidence isn't a new full album as such (we always knew it wouldn't be), but more a collection so to home the various collabs & remixes alongside hints of new ideas. Personally I'm a little bored with the repetitive city/woman/suit lyrical themes (I've got Metamatic for that), and while there are some nice sounds on there, it isn't breaking any new ground, unlike how The Shape Of Things was a nice, dark contrast to the dynamic of Interplay. And aside from "Changelings" (which is brilliant), I'm not a fan of the other remixes at all. But again, I need to remind myself that it's more of a collaboration and collection than an album. With that in mind, Evidence does feel like a bit like it's gathering up the various loose ends, which if it turned out to be a closing chapter, then it's good to have everything in one place.

I certainly think for a future Maths album, it would be great to have the full band with the girls on board, with that much-loved violin and real bass twanging away. But I know John doesn't hang around, and I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if his next project is something very new and different. Digits crossed…

Odd that you feel it doesn't work 'as an album' because I genuinely feel that it does.
The running order again (like TSOT) is something that really makes its own contribution and (I think) has been considered with some understanding and sense of wholeness.

Hey ho - can we agree to disagree?

It's one of John's most psychedelic album to date, and (I think) all the pieces reference one another very well. Only the bonus track stands alone in that respect - which is why it is what it is.

But of course

Discussion would be all a bit boring and a bit like the Facebook "likes" if everybody said the same thing all the time!

I have to admit, I'm surprised I feel this way about it (given I'd been really looking forward to it after hearing the title track), which is on the whole, rare for me for a Foxx release. Maybe my expectations were set too high, or quite simply it just isn't pushing the right buttons for me personally.

After the first few plays, I stopped making it as far as the bonus track

Psychedelic... there's a point to mull over. "Evidence" itself is certainly worthy of that description, as it does have that lovely Beatlesy/Shifting Cityesque/Golden Sectiony quality to it.

I'm reminded of the Impossible album - that took me ages to get into, but when I did get into it, it all just clicked into place.

The atmospheres between Maths albums have got darker and longer, which is quite a jolt at first. And most of what happens on Evidence is, well - nothing. It's the silence - the big spaces inbetween all the dub and the dark.

What, the gaps between tracks?!

I'm going to skip this one. I wasn't thrilled with Shapes and based on the reactions here, I probably won't like this one either.

I think there were some advantages to the old days when John was on Virgin. He was only allowed to release 45 minutes of music per year (the running time of an LP) and it had to be something the record company was going to promote. Now he can release as much music as he wants in any style. It should be a good thing but it's easy to do some half-baked experimental thing and put it out.

I would really like John and Benge to re-record the best Foxx/Gordon tracks on Benge's gorgeous sounding analog synths. I think there are some fantastic Foxx/Gordon tracks that were brought down by poor production. John would probably not consider doing this since he can just easily record new material.

To expand on this further, I think Foxx/Gordon was a good songwriting partnership but their production and arrangements were poor. John/Benge has better production but are perhaps less interested in songwriting.

I really liked The Shape of Things, but it did have a rather 'rushed' or 'unfinished' feel to it in parts, especially during the second half of the album. There's the same kind of feel on Evidence - I like the instrumentals (especially Cloud Choreography and Myriads), but some of them do sound like early starting points for fuller, proper songs.

The Maths is the longest 'band' John has been in since Ultravox I think... and he's never been one to hang around, so I'm really eager to see (hear?) what he does next. It feels like it's time for something a little different.

Interplay and Shapes were nice contrasts to each other, whereas Evidence is more like a continuation.

I still miss John's work with Louis, although I agree that production sometimes let the songs down a little. But that Foxx/Gordon partnership was clearly pivotal in John's return to music and I still rank some of those albums alongside Metamatic.

John clearly prefers working with other folk these days - maybe it best suits his creativity. But I'd still love to see a new album of lyrical electronic songs, bearing only John's name on the front.

I have to agree with Alex on this one, 'Evidence' leaves me a little cold. My immediate reaction upon hearing it was 'does anyone still have Louis's phone number as John needs him back'.

I will totally respect anyone who likes Evidence but for me it's a non-starter and I'm afraid as Alex states it has that compilation feel to it.

Back on the subject of Louis again, I like a few others I have spoken to am disappointed that in the live arena, John is now ignoring the 12 year (is that about right?) catalogue of work he created with Louis. Again, just my thoughts.

That was my feeling after the gig last year. Although it was an amazing gig and I loved every minute of it, it was a shame not to hear live tracks from SHifting City, TPOE, etc.

But on the other hand, I guess they're Louis' songs as much as John's and it could be he doesn't want to perform them without him. Which is fair enough.

I liked 'Evidence' a lot. My only complaint is that instrumental tracks are too short. Can't get 'Cloud Choreography' out of my head. I wish this track was at least 4 times longer. I hope their partnership continues as Benge, hands down, has become my favorite collaborator of John. Can't remember the last time I listened to any of the Foxx/Gordon albums, yes, there are some good songs on them, but the production doesn't stand up to Benge's.

I think a purely instrumental album from The Maths would be interesting. Opportunity for longer, flowing pieces.

One thing the Maths have demonstrated -- for me, at least -- is that it sounds great to have female vocals in the mix. And I think I'd like a full album of Foxx/Gazelle Twin.

I thought the same after a couple of listenings to Evidence.
I like the title track a lot but all the other stuff isn't as good as Interplay or the Shape of Things. The tracks are not bad but they are no "highlights" for me. As Alex said it sounds like a continuation. It is very rare I heard a good remix about John's stuff. Talk is one of my favourites of the Maths stuff but I cannot get into these Dear/Bush versions.
Gazelle Twin isn't my cup of tea. I saw them in London at the Xoyo as support to John and was glad they had finished. Same was for Tara Bush. ( Sorry to say that).
I know there are some people here who like these new collaboration things but I prefer a real Maths album.

And I would love to see John and Louis on stage again. What not means I don't like to see the Maths on stage.
But it would be nice to see John and Louis going trough their own stuff on one special show!

Doesn't do a lot for me at all. No real stand out tracks where as "Interplay" was full of brilliant tracks and "The Shape Of Things" boasted a few excellent tracks.

To me it isn't a cohesive piece of work and like a few others have said it feels like a compilation of bits and pieces left over from the first 2 albums, hopefully if John is going to do another Maths album he will go back to the "Interplay" blueprint.

It's unlikely that John will go 'back'

'Walk' is becoming one of my favourite tracks on the album and one of The Maths best moments.

At least on 'record' - The Maths is just John and Benge. They've been recording for, what, three years since Destination?

I really like the latest offering and like the majority of the tracks Evidence, That Sudden Switch, Changelings, My Town, A Falling Star, Cloud Choreography, Walk and Only Lovers Left Alive......and love the version of Floyd’s Have a Cigar. I suppose there are a few experiments/fill ins to make up the album but I’m glad John is still making music. The more the better! as long as we NEVER see a Christmas album! ha ha ha

I’m not surprised that some fans find this album less cohesive than previous Maths output. It contains a number of songs that were done as individual projects and I’m guessing were never originally intended to be part of something bigger.

John and the team obviously thought this was the point were all the loose ends should come together into one neat package. I’m 100% behind them in this decision.

We now have 3 proper CD albums that cover everything meaningful the Maths has ever done. And I'm grateful for that.

Paul Pledger's review of Evidence for allgigs:

http://flipsideflipsidereviews.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/album-review-john-foxx-and-maths.html

It is, indeed difficult to recall a time when Mr Leigh's star shone as brightly as it does today...

Evidence 7" single available from HMV .. soon.
http://hmv.com/hmvweb/displayProductDetails.do?sku=977259

I must agree with Gary. On first hearing it certainly hasn't 'blown my socks off'. Sure it's an opportunity to collect together various strands that John and Benge have worked on recently but for that reason it doesn't feel like a proper album to me.On top of that there are are too many tracks that don't grab me.Hopefully with futher listens it will sneak up on me.

I would argue that a Christmas album (or at least a track) is the one thing missing from the Foxx discography. Imagine the quiet man stumbling into yet another abandoned flat, a forest of needles covering the unopened presents when suddenly the tree lights start to glow as another midwinter sun sets. And the electricity has been of course been long disconnected. There is the distant sound of jingle bells, reverberating and looping and spiralling up through the broken skylight to the frozen stars ...

This is done I believe - John appeared in the Christmas hit, 4'33" by John Cage!

Back on topic though!

Today, after a very long wait and some follow-up with Townsend, Evidence finally arrived on the doorstep with "Missent to Australia" stamped on it. Thanks Royal Mail!

So expectations set very low after reading the many reports here, but I was actually very pleased after the first listening.

When I first heard the album was coming out as an EP, I was hopeful of something good and I believe I have got it. But got "what" exactly? In my view I have an EP with lots of bonus material, which loops back to my original expectation anyway!

The "cool" factor for me was the variety of sounds. Some classic JF (Metamatic-like), some mid period JF (Cathedral Oceans-like), and some contemporary too.

A Falling Star stands out for me after listening #1. My Town too. That will change I'm sure. The only mild disappointment currently was this version of Walk. Way too soft after having heard it live at Cargo. Needs more "ooomph" in my utmost of humble opinions. Still, I will give it a few more listenings before I confirm that opinion!

I am currently on track 5, for possibly the 10th time. Various impressions have come and gone. The final version (or possibly just the 10th impression) goes like this:

I think the tracks flow very well as an album. It helps me perhaps that I was unfamiliar with the various pieces that were already revealed, apart from one exposure to the (unfinished) Have A Cigar. As an experiment, some listens ago, I tried all the instrumental tracks together: it didn't work, apart from being vaguely reminiscent of The Dignity of Labour. And similarly, all the vocal tracks together. A couple of tracks have taken a while to bed in, in particular the Xeno & Oaklander collaboration, and Matthew Dear's voice is an acquired taste, and some of the lyrics seem, I don't know, slight, or should I say honed, stripped back.

Following the central bank of 4 pieces starting and ending with Gazelle Twin's contributions, the mood gradually lightens a bit. The dark forces of the night tentatively return to the shadows, and finally a kind of restless peace is coming, dawn is starting to sing.

Listening to Foxx will always take you back to earlier Foxx so it is not a surprise to hear Twilight's Last Gleaming leaking out of Shadow Memory and Slow Motion sublimating out of Walk. And all of In Mysterious Ways, like rainbows in oil on the road, on Only Lovers Left Alive.

I could even argue that the bonus track fits as part of the album. And maybe I will one day.

Brilliant!! What a superb observation

It's there in Walk for me too.

I really LOVE this album. For me, it has more depth, connectivity and adventure than the other Maths albums.

All in all, they make a stunning trilogy of work.

The two tracks that 100% grab my attention connected with this release are those with Gazelle Twin: Changelings and A Falling Star, haunting and quite beautiful, and I really wish there was far more revision/contribution on the Evidence album between this particular artist and John and The Maths.

Including Gazelle Twin I've found 10 tracks from Evidence online: Soft Moon Evidence/That Sudden Switch/Talk/My Town/Have A Cigar/Cloud Choreography/Walk/Tara Busch I talk Machine and played them all several times but I'm still not feeling in any rush to obtain the actual CD (later no doubt). Sure, I'd like to hear those other tracks that I'm missing, but as for what I've gleaned so far from this album it has not fired my imagination...

Fantastic proposition Mark, I support your beautifully stated vision, hopefully the Foxx has taken note too!

All of which gives me an idea...

Yuck! In America, the wingnuts have a campaign to “Keep Christ in Christmas.” I am launching my own campaign, which I'm sure noone will join, to “Keep Foxx out of Christmas.” Christmas albums are Rod Stewart territory and not very Foxxy.

:p as for the second coming I would argue that its Christ - 0 and John - 1 after the revelatory and unforseen 1997 reappearance from beyond with Shifting City and Louis Gordon (Gordon who was 'of the gospel of Techno')

Simon of Cowell still owns Christmas over here Mike!

All other comments on tinsel, turkey, wingnuts and Cowell can be posted here:

http://www.metamatic.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/45048#Post45048

Enjoy

If we accept the premise that "Shifting City" was Christ-like, could we say the dodgy Nation 12 effort was an L. Ron move?

review by the Beeb:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/reviews/m9j9

BBC News Headline

"Foxx's third Maths assisted set is probably his best post-Ultravox LP"

and again

"Foxx's most superior post-Ultravox! LP to date"

and

"Carlsberg, probably the best beer in the world" (1973 to 2011 at least according to 'Mad Men' Saatchi & Saatchi)

my entry for a new Mad in 2013

"I don't drink it, and I don't know anybody else who does"

If I had to use NASA-centric metaphors, “Interplay” is an earth orbit; spiraling around a beautiful blue green globe. Powerful and yet familiar for all of its newness. “The Shape Of Things” is a journey to the far side of the moon. The trip is somewhat familiar but marked by solitude and eerie stillness. “Evidence” is a deep space trip to the Jovian satellites. It bears little of the earth/moon familiarity and the solar panels are relying on what few solar emissions are available at the far reaches of the solar system. So expenditures of energy are lower. Much of the trip is spent in cryostasis. I will always love "Interplay." It pushes every button I have, expertly. But "Shatterproof" from that album led the way forward in to starker new territory. I've been excited to see the progression forward from that album through to "The Shape of Things" and now "Evidence." Each subsequent album pushes the envelope forward and out of the comfort zone. As my comfort level is challenged, my respect for The Maths grows ever larger. John Foxx is the only artist I love growing new braincells at full maturity and capable of challenging me. Benge is my favorite of his collaborators. He makes the best-sounding music I've heard in over 30 years. I don't see an end to this phase yet. I can hardly wait to hear what comes next.